A Lot of Words

-Where is heaven?
-It's where your heart is.

Could there be technology in the new
Earth?

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, in my Genesis
commentary, which is coming out soon, it

talks about how, like, the technology of
man isn't bad.

Question, will we meet biblical figures
such as Moses, Abraham, David, Peter, and

-Paul?
-Yeah, why wouldn't we?

-And Mary.
-Of course we will.

-Yeah, we're gonna meet 'em all.
-Will, will I meet Peter, Paul, and Mary?

Yeah, you'll meet Peter, Paul, and Mary.
That's right.

Therefore, are our loved ones up in heaven
looking down on us? Do they see

everything we do? Do they know our
thoughts?

Yeah, I mean, there's a sense in which...

Welcome back to the A Lot of Words
podcast. I'm Brett Schenck. Joining me, as

always, is Pastor Matt Smith, senior
pastor at Barabbas Road Church here in

beautiful southern, southern California,

southern, sunny California. There we go.
Uh, what are we doing on this show? Every

Monday, we come to you answering the
questions that you, the listeners,

actually ask. If you have a question you
want us to answer on air, go to a

lotofwordspodcast.com. Click on the blue
ask a question button, send it in. We'll

either answer it in our Q&A section that
we have on each podcast in the beginning,

or we'll turn it into an entire episode if
it's deemed worthy of an entire episode,

like this week was and last week was, as
we continue our talk about heaven. Matt.

Y- y- the caffeine

-kicked in.
-There's no c- it's decaf.

-I know. The, y- last episode-
-I'm locked in

... your intro was like, "Hello, my name
is Brett Schenck. Welcome to the A Lot of

Words." And it,

you t- you said, "I'm gonna drink my
coffee," and it's a decaf coffee, and now

-you're like, "Zippity-doo."
-No, there's a little bit in there. See,

-you-
-Ugh.

Once you, once you get on decaf, you
realize that about 10 mil- whatever it is,

-10 milligrams in there, you're flying.
-Mm.

-Everyone's just super over-addicted.
-Yeah. Oh, yeah.

See, now my self-righteousness is coming
out.

Oh, what do you need, caffeinated coffee?
You weak-

-I enjoy, I enjoy this
-... weak man.

Uh, but if you didn't, decaf, it's the
same taste. It tastes a little tinny.

-It's not as good.
-Um, this probably used a chemical

reaction, not the water pressed that you
need to s- remain healthy.

-I feel like decaf coffee is sort of...
-Matt, I'm wearing a hat. So this is, uh,

Chet and Emel's in Burnewood, Wisconsin,
and it was where every one of my family

members on my mom's side got married.

-It's a bowling alley, disco bar.
-I know, but I didn't understand something.

You went no hat,

and then you... Did you save... I was...
Help me understand the logic, because we

-did-
-Yeah

-... back-to-back episodes.
-Let's do it.

So we... The last episode that you're, we
filmed was five minutes ago.

-Yeah, exactly.
-So we changed shirts.

-We changed shirts.
-Which is sort of a nod to the fact that

we're faking, 'cause we feel like it's a
new episode.

-And we tell everyone when we do it.
-I know, but it, it's... I think it's where

when you look at the shorts and the
thumbnails, you can, like, distinguish

-them maybe.
-And the pants, yeah.

But the idea that you...

Did you save up the hat?

-I have four hats in my car.
-But no, but in your mind-

-Yeah
-... did you think, "I'm gonna let my hair

have a moment, and then I'm gonna have my
hat now"?

I want it to be a big transition, and I
haven't worn this hat on the show, and I

knew it would give me some fodder to talk
about today.

I just, I'm just curious about that.
That's great.

The hat is a good segue into some
beginning banter and fodder.

Okay, you go for it. Yeah, tell me what's
up.

So my grandpa, this place, this is where,
like, all my relatives were married. It's

-the only-
-Chet and Emel's.

-Chet and Emel's, the only show in town.
-Okay.

And they have... Their bowling alley, that
still exists today, but you have to

physically go set the pins up. So it's a
da- it's a dance floor that you remove,

and then it's a bowling alley. It's a
four-lane bowling alley.

And I had not been there in 30 years. And
so I go back for hunting season.

Oh, you have to set the pins up after you
hit them?

-Yeah.
-You have to walk down?

They're... Like, y- one person's on each
end. It's almost like playing bags now.

-Oh my goodness.
-And so someone sets them up, and your

partner bowls, and then you set it, set it
up.

-I would sabotage you.
-I did that in the Air Force. In the Air

Force? I would go down and set them up.
Yeah.

-I would be sabotaging you.
-It's, it's incredible.

-Okay, keep going.
-But they, um... And so, so I was... I go

back, it's 30 years, and I walked in. My
dad was having some family reunion when

our family went back home, and it's the s-
nothing has changed.

-Wow.
-I mean, nothing has changed. And so I wa-

there's a lady at the end of the bar, and
I, I was like, "Man, that looks like the

lady that used to run kind of all the, you
know, post-wedding dances."

And so I went up. I was like, "I just
gotta ask, are you... Like, did you do

this?" And she goes, "Yeah."

-She's like, "Emel was my dad."
-Wow.

But, uh, it was cool talking to her. I
found out that my grandpa won the first...

This was in, like, 1945, the first
bowling tournament there.

-Wow.
-And she showed me this photo of him, um,

-and I'd never... He'd died.
-So it's in your pedigree.

Yeah, he died before I was born. I, I had
no clue. And so it was just a cool... Chet

and Emel's, they...

Yeah, they got everything. They do
everything.

-I love that.
-It's the only spot in town. I love it. And

I bought... This is my hunting hat since
I... the last, like, two-

Is it big? Is it a big place?

-Um, it's like a big wedding hall.
-Okay.

And then they also serve... They have
this...

It's like a chicken... You could go...
It's maybe online, Chet and Emel's. Maybe

you could Google it, potentially. But they
do a chicken,

like, supper club. So this is the only
thing you can do there. Y- if you go there

at five o'clock, they're like, "Here is
the meal." There's no, like-

-I like that.
-There's no, like-

That's, that's what we just said about the
podcast. Like, w- you said in the last

episode, like, "Do you like it long? Do
you like it short?" I'm like, "No, here is

-the meal."
-Yeah. You c-

-That's how I think of this.
-Exactly. And so it's all just, you know,

-family style.
-Yeah.

You go there and you're like, "We're
getting the chicken dinner."

-Yes.
-That's what you get that day. And it is

-kinda nice.
-That's great.

Yeah. Great for the waitresses. My
cousin's wife worked there for 10 years

-and-
-You told me I would not fit in at all in

-your-
-You would not do well in Northern

-Wisconsin.
-Yeah. You th- you said everyone thinks

-I'm-
-Just, just the shirt you're wearing right

-now.
-My white T-shirt?

It's a V-neck.

-Oh my gosh.
-With tight pants.

They're not tight pants. They're normal
pants.

And wearing work boots with, like, a desk
job that you have, they would not

-appreciate that.
-Oh my goodness.

They'd think you're making fun of them or
something.

Man, what, what? Are people all sensitive?
Sensitive babies, huh?

Well, there's a lot... It's, you know, the
identity is not... There's a lot of...

You know, the identity in being a
hillbilly is real as well.

-Okay.
-Uh-

-You told me they would all think I'm gay.
-They would.

-Just by how you speak.
-Oh, dear.

Just the speed and cadence of your
talking.

Like, that, that's... I won't even say
anything. All right. Well-

Yeah. Chet and Emel's. Shout out to Chet
and Emel's. If someone... I mean, go there

-and buy something. It's just like-
-I like that

-... it's an awesome spot.
-Go there and tell them that the A Lot of

-Words podcast-
-Yes

... and the two gay pastors over there
told you to come out.

-Goodness gracious.
-See, look at all this content they have

-for the body.
-Oh, that's great.

But, uh, um, hopefully, I was not... I did
not pull an alligator tag, shockingly.

Um, but I'm gonna hopefully be

-do- dove hunting, which is-
-Ooh

... way less cool. Bird hunting's the most
fun. I tell people this all the time.

Like, "Oh, I'm gonna go shoot a moose or a
elk." I'm like, "That's so boring." It...

People don't realize how boring that is.
'Cause it's just- ... it's, it's 10 days

-of just, like, staring at the woods or-
-I think it's really fun if you do it with

-a knife.
-Bird hunting-

-Not with a gun
-... you just, you go there, you shoot,

like, 100 rounds, you kill a bunch of
chicken nugget birds, and you just... You

had a blast. There's a do- a lot of times
you can bring a dog.

-Do you have to clean them all yourself?
-Yeah, but it's cool. You just pull out the

-breast. It's really simple.
-Okay.

-Um-
-That's great

... but it's... I- Fishing.

-Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The, like-
-But people are into it.

-Yeah. Yeah.
-I feel, I feel like I want to f- to, out

of spite, just go to there, to Wisconsin,
and just have everyone like me.

-Yeah, they m- I mean, they might.
-They might be like, "This guy's great.

He's so manly and awesome."

-That's awesome.
-Look at his

-demeanor.
-Look at his demeanor. Look at his tousled

hair. What was the c- where was that from?

The, well, they did an article. No,
somebody, when our church first started-

-Yeah
-... came to our church and he said, "Some

pastor of another church said you
shouldn't go to our church because I spend

more time on my hair- ... than I do my
sermons."

Which is ironic, because you could say my
sermons were terrible, but I definitely

spend a lot of time on them. So it's, that
was, like, an odd criticism.

-It was.
-And then right after that happened, the,

the San Diego Reader had come out with an
article, like, right the next day. And as

it described the... it says, "The pastor
with his lightly tousled hair." And I was

like, I immediately shaved my head.

I was, like, so irritated by everybody.
I'm like, "What's your deal? I have

-normal-"
-You're a tousled hair guy. You're the hair

guy.

-Oh, dear.
-You have hair. That's a good thing.

-I do have it. Yep.
-Yep.

-Yep, I have some.
-Uh, we wanna thank, uh, the sponsor for

this show. It is Logos Bible Software.
Speaking of having hair, Logos Bible

-Software-
-Has hair

-... has hair.
-Yeah.

Yeah, the thing... What do they say? That
thing's got legs.

-What?
-What is the etymology of that saying?

-That it's got legs?
-Yeah.

Uh,

means it's gonna start running.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah. But where does it
come from?

-Well-
-You, you know a lot of these weird things,

-I think.
-Well, I c- the only thing I can make up is

-imagine seeing-
-Just make it up.

I'm gonna make it up. Imagine seeing,
like, an animal sitting there, and all of

a sudden, it, like, gets up and starts
running. Like, that's got legs.

-Yeah.
-That's all I think of.

Like it was the first guy to see a
giraffe.

Yeah. Who was the first guy to milk a cow?

-Yeah, that's a great question.
-Someone had to sit there and be like, "Let

-me see what that does."
-Have you milked...

I mean, have you thought of that? Or r-
you know the scat coffee, the super

-expensive coffee?
-Yeah.

Someone's like, "Hey, let's wait till
that, that animal poops it out and let's

-make coffee out of it." Even coffee.
-Yeah.

-Anyways, I'm sorry. I'm just-
-Here's a, here's a qu-

-... these are the things I think of.
-Here's a question.

These are a lot of words, questions that I
have for-

This is, this is one of my favorite ways
to show that someone's a city, a city

slicker. How many udders does a cow have?

Uh,

eight?

One.

-I don't know. What, the, the nipples?
-They have one udder and multiple teats.

Mu- multiple teats, okay.

-Yeah. See?
-Well, what kind of cow are you talking

-about?
-City boy.

That's like, Wisconsin cows might have
one, but California cows have eight.

Uh, I'm talking about a, I'm talking about
a Golden Guernsey cow.

I don't know how to, I don't know how
many... But, well, who was the first guy

-to be like, "Let's go squeeze that-
-Yeah.

-... and see if we can put in our cereal."
-Yeah.

-Eh, I don't know.
-It just doesn't seem like-

Well, you'd th- well, actually, it
probably came from, like, they would see

how a baby would receive milk from a
mother and then assume that-

And someone's like, "I wanna try that."

Well, at least my, I was like, you're
like, "Well, this cow has similar parts."

But if you look at a bird feed and other
birds are like...

-You're never like, "Let me go try that."
-That's true.

-But-
-But maybe we should

-... but humans would...
-Maybe we should try it.

That, actually, maybe... Who knows? Maybe
that's some of the b- first baby food is

-basically that. It's this-
-You know, I'm gonna go find a bird that...

I don't even know. Well, let's keep
going. What's, what's the sub- where it's

-heaven, heaven part two.
-I bet that's happened sometime in your

-life.
-Yeah.

-Yeah, heaven part two.
-Resurrected birds in heaven.

Uh, Logos Bible Software, if you wanna...
Shauncey texted me.

-Udders.
-Oh, here we go.

Uh, the phrase, "It has legs." Thank you,
Shauncey, off screen. "Likely originated

in theater talk to describe someone with
endurance or sustainability after initial

success. And some sources suggest it may
trace back to the 1700s or be linked to

wine terminology,

where legs refers to how wine clings to a
glass."

-Oh, yeah, that's true.
-That's a good .

Mm-hmm. I think I like mine better, where
you just see this, like, thing.

-I like yours better.
-And it just gets up and starts running.

Look at this giraffe. A giraffe is my
favorite animal, by the way.

-Really?
-Yeah.

Uh, we have a lot of the same afflictions.
Their knees hurt, their necks are all

-bent.
-Have you ever seen a giraffe fight?

-Yeah, they neck 'em.
-They're so... It's, that is one of the

-most-
-Can you imagine I just did that to you?

They just... It, you would hurt you.

You would hurt you. I love that statement.

It would hurt you. It would just, your
neck would hurt yourself.

I, I love the ex- I wanna fight you.
You're like, "You would hurt you."

You would hurt you.

-Oh.
-That's great. You would hurt you. Logos

Bible Software, click on the link below to
get a 60-day free trial of Logos Bible

Software and take your Bible study to the
next level. Also, if you wanna sponsor-

-I need to get some of your decaf coffee.
-If you wanna sponsor one of our shows...

I'm like, I'm starting to think this might
be caffeinated. I think they-

-You are a new man.
-I think they missed the label.

-Oh my goodness.
-Uh, if they... The nice thing is there'll

-be a-
-You had, like, coffee and meth or

something.

It'd be a full week.

Well, I did have what I normally... I
don't eat usually till after this show,

-but I had a, um, the sa-
-I'm just talking to a new man

... the sausage, egg, and cheese,

um, sandwich from Cost- or not from
Costco, from Starbucks.

-Should we get sponsored by Starbucks?
-And it, and it might've put me to sleep.

If you wanna sponsor a show,

uh, just email us.

If you want us to talk about your product,
send it to us.

-Yeah, click on the-
-I wanted to... Can you... One day I wanna

do... Well, I've already done it, but I
wanna just, like, tell you about all my

-things.
-Yeah, you talked, last time you talked

-about your thing.
-You actually... Can I tell you one fin-

-final-
-Almost

... one final story? One final story. So
we were at, we were leaving this little

trip thing we went to, and I went to the
mall and I wanted to just get my glasses

tightened.

-Right?
-This happens to you all the time.

-What?
-You... I feel like multiple times you have

gone to the mall to tighten your glasses.

-No, I've never done that before.
-I don't believe you. Maybe that was, that

-was Kerry.
-Yeah. This is the first time I've done

that.

-Maybe you dreamed about it.
-I'm conflating you with my wife.

Hey, well,

-sorry, Kerry. Um, I'm less snuggly. Um...
-That's true.

-Yes.
-So I go in there and the big joke is that

I sell everything I do. I can't... I'm
like a salesman. I can't help it.

-Yeah.
-And the re- reality is because if I like

it, I want other people to know about it.
So I'm there and I go into the Sunglass

Hut per- place, and they go to tighten my
glasses and I take my glasses out of the

case.

And I have this special two glasses case,

the square case that holds two glasses.
You open it up and both glasses are in it,

and it's made by Oliver Peoples. And
they're like, "What, what case is that?"

And so they're, as they're doing, I was
like, "Oh, it's the Oliver Peoples one."

And they, they don't sell it there. And so
they're like, "Wait, you can order that?"

So they went and bought the case. So I
went to the Sunglass Hut and sold them

on a sunglasses case when they fixed my
glasses. I thought...

-That's nice.
-Yeah, that's nice.

Are you... Is it

-Oliver Peoples?
-Oliver Peoples, yeah.

Or All of Her Peoples? Is it Oliver
Peoples?

All of Her Peoples. It's Oliver Peoples is
just a brand. The... Okay, the two, two-

-Like O-L-I-V-E Oliver.
-Oliver.

-Oliver, okay.
-Yeah, like Oliver Twist. The... Here's,

-here's what I know.
-Oliver Twists.

Oliver Twists.

Brett's, Brett's got this f- you've got
your feminine, uh, book club code. You're

like, "Oliver Peoples and Oliver Twists."

No, there's two... So all of them are
owned by the same sunglass company.

-I was like, "All of them."
-Luxottica owns all of them, but-

-Yes, they do
-... only two brands that I know of, and,

well, technically, Maui Jim and old school
Ray-Bans, but right now the two brands

that actually put glass lenses in their
sunglasses

is Persol and Oliver Peoples. And if you
use glass lenses, they're the best ever

'cause they don't scratch.

And so normal sunglasses, it doesn't
matter if they're designer, they're gonna

-scratch and it's so annoying, right?
-Mm-hmm.

But the, the glasses from Persol and
Oliver Peoples, which is a sister company,

they do not scratch. And so when I had
all this stuff on this show about using

contacts, not contacts, I finally just got

prescription sunglasses,

and I asked them, I said, "Well, can you
just put glass lenses?" And like, "We have

to send that back to Italy." And I'm
like, "That's the most pretentious thing

-I've ever heard." They're like-
-Mm-hmm

... "We'll do it for free." I'm like,
"Okay." So I waited for, like, months for,

like, Geppetto in Italy to, like, give me
glass lenses. And so when they were

fixing my glasses, they were asking about
those too, and I basically sold them on,

"You should order the glass lenses when
you do it." So I just, I find that to be

-a worthwhile-
-Yeah, you need affiliate links.

I do. I just need to w- have a QR code
shirt.

This is true. All right, well, let's get
into the topic for this week. I'm not

gonna do a question this week because next
week we'll be doing a full

Q&A episode. Um, they're not gonna have
ti- actually, you won't have time. I've

already had all the questions. We got
enough questions.

But I will do a full Q&A and episode next
week.

-Okay.
-And, uh, we'll go from there. So let's

-just get right into the subject matter.
-We should have an adulation episode where

-you just read praises.
-Yeah, I want to do one. I know. Well, due

to time constraints last time, I couldn't
read your mean TikToks, and there's been

-some awesome ones lately.
-I, I, I, thank you.

-I mean, so good.
-Ugh.

Just making fun of you and saying the
worst ad hominem attacks.

-I just wanna fight everybody.
-I, I just giggle. I mean, they make...

Nothing makes me giggle. I don't know why
none of them make fun of me.

I, I've yet to read a comment like, "Who's
this idiot?" They just only make fun of

-you.
-Yeah. They, they would never... Yeah.

Well, in my mind, I look a little more
ridiculous than you do, but you're the one

-speaking most of the time.
-They just don't think that-

-Who knows?
-Yeah. They don't like being told that

-they're dumb.
-Who knows? Uh, let's get into heaven 2.0,

-man.
-Wretches are gonna wretch.

Wretches be wretchin'. Heaven 2.0, um,

last time we talked a lot about h-
heaven's a physical-

-Oh, the TikTok thing. That's fun.
-I know, it is fun. Yeah. I'll, I'll make

-s-
-Well, can you remember any... remember one

-of them? Do you remember any of them?
-I'll make some... There was one, it was

a...

-Who's this old guy?
-It was... No, it was... They... It was a

steroid reference, and I wish I would've
screenshotted it. You're like, you're

like, "I'm not gonna take any advice from
somebody who does steroids."

-Oh my gosh.
-I know.

Well, that's actually a compliment.
That's... We'll take that. Okay.

-That was so great.
-That's for the adulation episode.

-Yeah.
-All right. Okay, it's heaven. We're...

-Heaven part two.
-Heaven 2.0. Last week, you touched a lot

about, um, that it's a physical place. We
went through question, you know, are kids

in heaven, are children in heaven? Will we
remember-

-Are dogs in heaven?
-... our people from on Earth? Are dogs in

heaven? You know, we'll be sad that our
relatives are in hell. And so if you

missed that episode, encourage you to go
back to last week and watch that episode

where I was a lot sleepier. I had just ate
a sausage sandwich-

-Yeah
-... and I think it really shut me down.

And now it's digested through my body and
I'm ready to go.

-Yeah, you seem like it. Yeah, let's go.
-I didn't even have a bathroom break. I'm

-just metabolizing quickly.
-This is good.

Um, shout out to peptides.

-Pepsi. All right.
-Pepsi and peptides. Uh, first question is,

for this week on heaven is, where is
heaven?

It's where your heart is. No, um,

the, the, the description, I kind of re-
alluded this already,

it's not... It's, it's hard because it's
not described in the Bible merely as,

like, a- another dimension, but it is a
place.

So you have

the heavens, which is that the heavens
declare the glory of God. That's the first

heaven. That's the sky,

right?

Um, and then you have the second, like,
heavens that you would call, I guess, in

that way, which would be just the word
heaven also. That's more, like, above the

-sky. That's like outer space, right?
-Yeah, troposphere.

So that's like the, the planets. And the
third heaven is where God is. So if you

were to take that and extrapolate from
that,

somehow what's, what's above, I guess,

the space, right? We would think of that
as, like, a different dimension, I guess,

would be the way to describe it. And one
of the interesting things about

heaven when we think of that dimensional

issue

is there's this book back in the day that
you could read called "Flatlanders," and

it was describing

how we communicate with God. And wh- when
we say that God is spirit, and what does

it look like and, and where is it? And,
and so if I was in the... And the, the

analogy I'll give you today was if you
wanted to have a relationship with Super

Mario Brothers, it's like Mario from Mario
Brothers 1.

And so in Mario Brothers 1, it's a
two-dimensional side-scrolling game. If

you don't know what Super Mario Brothers
is, that's okay, um, but

you should. And so if you wanted to talk
to him and you're on the other side of the

TV, or even if you're a sphere or
something, you're like a ball, like a

basketball, and you, like, want Mario to
see the basketball, you touch the

basketball to the TV or whatever. Um, even
if you could, like,

get past the screen, like if you could do
it, all Mario's gonna see is a line

because he's two-dimensional. He's only
looking this direction, so everything he

sees is in a, in a line. That's what two
dimensions are. But a three-dimensional

person, how could a three-dimensional

object ever interact with a
two-dimensional object? Everything that

the two-dimensional person sees is in a
straight line. And so that's the whole

point of the incarnation and the whole
taking on flesh, but it also kind of

alludes to the, the challenge of, of, of
heaven and God being spiritual is that

however many dimensions we are, whether,
you know, God would be more. Um, I don't

know if that's the best way to view heaven
or not, uh, but

that's, I think, the fair way to do it.
Um, or you could be like the Mormons and

just say there's a planet called Kolob and
that's heaven. But, uh, but what we...

Well, what the Bible describes is sort of
like a- another dimension. And so, uh,

Paul at one point talks about being caught
up to the third heaven. And so,

um,

you know, John describes in Revelation,
you know, before he's caught up and the

visions he has are there when he's on the
island of Patmos. So

was he there? Well, Paul says something I
think that's really helpful. He says,

um, this is,

what, 2 Corinthians 12, 12, I believe. He
says, "In the body or out of body, I don't

know." I think it's a really revealing
statement, because the idea was it is a

vision, he's transported there, it
doesn't... he's not on a rocket ship, he's

not waiting for his ticket, you know,
he's not... it's, he just, he's just

there. And so I think the sense that it's
a vision, it's another place, kind of a,

leaves us with a sense that, like,
wherever this is,

it's, uh, close enough,

you know. For example, at one point in the
Old Testament,

you know, God is said to have a meal sort
of above and, and fellowshiping with him

in Exodus. And so it says all the elders
come together and they sit basically under

his throne. It says, like, there's a
sense of like a...

You know, and then you look in,

what, Revelation

4, where it describes the throne room of
heaven, you know, there's this glass

rainbow-type floor, and you look back at
Exodus, that whole thing. So wherever it

is, it- it's not far,

I think is the way to say it. So it
wouldn't be like interplanetary travel. So

I do think dimensionally might be the
best way to view it. So it's a place,

um, but yeah.

Are there actually mansions in heaven?
When the scripture references that, is it

talking about a, a home?

Yeah. Well, the original is more like many
rooms, actually. Uh,

but even then, it's not totally accurate.
Remember, the idea of Jesus saying, "I go

to prepare a place for you,"

this is very much wedding language. I
think it's important to remember that. Um,

and when he says there's many rooms or y-
many mansions is fine, it just sort of

fits the bill.

The real analogy is he says, "I gotta go
and prepare a place and then bring you."

And so that's the picture of the
bridegroom going, and when he comes back

and essentially kidnaps the bride and
brings her back to his property, well, he

had spent that year or whatever while
they're betrothed building a place for the

bride, and it was on the, the dad's...
on, on his land that... on his family

land. So he would have been building a
place for that year and then when-

whatever, whatever time that looks like,
and then he goes and brings his bride to

the place he's prepared for her.

Um, that's the description of Jesus
preparing a place for us. So

it's been 2,000 years. It took God six
days to create heaven and earth. It's been

2,000 years of, of him preparing a place
for us. So it's gonna be awesome. Um, but

I think the idea of streets of gold and,
and, um,

is described in Revelation, but that might
be...

You know, sometimes that's millennial
language, you know, so... But it is also

heavenly Jerusalem language. And so it
describes the gates as like a giant pearl

that's, I mean, bigger than you can
imagine.

I just think there's an extravagance to it
all, so mansions probably is the right

word.

Um, and we'll have a place. And like we
said last week, there is a material aspect

to all these things. It's not wispy or,
you know,

um, unreal in some sense. We're not
disembodied spirits. There's gonna be a

sense where you'll, you'll have,

you know, an address, so to speak. And so,
yeah, I mean, I think that's fair.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, it's...

sometimes it shocks me. People are always,
"Brett, you're not paying attention a lot

when Matt's talking." I am, but I'm
also... I have so many questions, and you

answer... The next two were, "Are there
streets really made of gold and are there

-really pearly gates?"
-That's so funny.

And so then you answer them, so I have to
kind of click through.

Is that, is that weird to you? Like, my
mind-

-I think it's weird
-... is not a filing cabinet, it's a ball

of yarn, and you just pull it and stuff
keeps coming out.

Yeah, I know. Um,

what is the New Jerusalem, and is the New
Jerusalem the same thing as heaven?

No. Um,

I-- the New Jerusalem is, in Revelation,
is described as like a cube,

uh, really. I mean, if you look at the
dimensions of it. And it's described as

essentially above earthly Jerusalem. I
mean, there's no other way to say it. I

mean, so you have a scenario where you
have the millennial

kingdom. If, if you, if you're a, a
futurist, if you believe that these things

are, um, describing a future, which is,
uh, actually not as immodest of a

statement as the basic view

I think we ought to have. Um, that after
the tribulation, the people that survive

the tribulation are divided up into the
kingdoms and whatnot. Are we ever gonna do

one on end times? I don't know. But, um,

uh, divide up the kingdom, and you have
this heavenly Jerusalem that comes down,

and that's where the, the, the church, the
people that are in glorified bodies,

where that's we all reside. And so you get
the impression that while there's a

millennial kingdom, there's also a
heavenly Jerusalem. And if...

all I can think of is it's a giant cube,

it's beyond... it's bigger than, like,

all of the continents. It's huge with the
space of the dimensions of what it would

be.

I don't know what it would be like in it,
but that's the description of it, is like

this giant cube thing, and it's on Earth
in some sense. But, but

maybe that's that dimensional thing I
talked about. Maybe that's part... I, I

don't know. I mean, that's just the
description in Revelation is that it is,

uh, different than the earthly Jerusalem.

Last week, you talked about how the Bible
speaks about paradise, then kind of talked

about heaven.

Uh, what is Abraham's bosom? Is it one of
those two things? Is it something

-completely separate?
-Yeah, so Abraham's bosom was a, a way of

describing paradise in the Old Testament,
but uniquely for the Jew, it was a, a,

a promise... it, it was related
specifically to the promises to Abraham,

um,

that in Hebrews talks about of a city that
he couldn't see, right? So there's a

sense in which the most significant ask of
Abraham,

you know, he was... trusted God and, and,
and, and went out

and basically followed the Lord, but he
never actually owned anything in the land,

but God gave it to him all. And the only
thing Abraham actually got before he died

was he bought the cave to bury Sarah.

And so when he...

and then he ends up wanting to be buried
there. And so that's why it's so

significant that for the Jewish person, he
wanted to be buried there, but the idea

was so that when he was raised

in the resurrection, he'd be raised in the
land that he was promised, right? Which

is fascinating because for the Jewish
person, I mean, um, Jacob wanted to be

buried in that same cave,

uh, taken back there. So this was, for the
Jewish person, a, a claim of God's

promises in the resurrection. And so
Abraham's bosom was like a, a place of

paradise, but it was a place of waiting

for the resurrection promises. So there
was a very earthly hope that they're,

they're describing. So heaven isn't the
right word I would describe for that, if

that makes sense. Although it's paradise,
there's a sense of death and resurrection,

uh, being actually really, really at the
front and center. And what's fascinating

about this is for the Jew, just as a si-
side note, um, their claim to the land

were Abraham's bones in a cave.

I love when you know that, knowing how
significant that is when you get to the

New Testament and say that we have a
living hope. In other words, our tomb is

empty. There are no bones in a cave
because Jesus walked out of that tomb and

our hope and our, our inheritance is tied
up in Him and it's kept in heaven for us.

I mean, so when you describe the language
of the Old Testament, Abraham, and then

you see the New Testament of Jesus, you're
like, "Oh my goodness, this is..." It's,

it's, it's banking on that language being,
you know, um...

-It, it escalates it, in other words.
-Escalates.

But yeah, Abraham's bosom would be a place
of paradise. It would be similar to

heaven. But what's fascinating is in the
story of Lazarus that Jesus gives, there's

a description of Sheol, which is the
place of the dead, um, and you, in it you

have one side which is Abraham's bosom,
which is like paradise. Then there's the

other side, which would be a place of
torment. There's no real name for that.

And there's a great chasm between them. So
there's a very parallel, sort of

horizontal

thing. Um,

the argument is that in the resurrection,
when Jesus ascended to heaven, He took

Abraham's bosom and paradise, that would
be the true, where that now is heaven. So

like Abraham and all the folks in
Abraham's bosom are in heaven with Christ

now.

Um,

and so then the place of the dead right
now would only be the place of torment if

you were to... You just wanna... You, you
gotta be careful not to be super

hyper-literal here

in some ways. And what I mean by that is
the Bible's not prescribing us to make

some of these claims, but some of it you
can. Like the, the picture of Christ going

there. And you gotta be careful. Some
people say, "Well, then when he says he

lo- led a host of captivity captives,"
like that was him taking. I don't think

that's the best way to use that verse. I
think that's more of a description of

the preaching through Noah during the
flood. But

regardless, um,

yeah, the, the picture of Abraham's bosom
was a horizontal place

of, of, of

goodness,

and

now that would be in heaven with Christ.

-Uh, looking at these.
-I don't know if that makes sense, but I

-mean-
-It does.

-Yeah.
-Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, ba, ba, ba.

-Let's go, let's go-
-And most people don't think about any of

this, so it all, all of this sounds alien.
Like, if you're a Christian, you'd be

like, "I'm a Christian. My whole life I
haven't heard any of this." I'm like,

"Yeah, but you probably haven't studied
it." None of it's

obscure when you look in the scripture.
It's just we're trying to ask questions

about stuff we've, we're given hints at.
Which is another question really, is why

doesn't the Bible talk more about it? But-

-Mm-hmm
-... I'll let you ask those.

Yeah. Uh, I think I... It's in the latter
section.

-All right.
-I think I have a question around that.

Uh, what's the difference between the
millennium and the new Earth? Does God

destroy the current Earth and bring a new
Earth?

Yeah. This can get really confusing. Let,
let me make it really simple.

Millennium just means a thousand years,
and it's just

the geopolitics of the Old Testament. And
like, so for example, in Isaiah 49, Jesus

is the, the true Israel, okay? But then it
says He's gonna go save Israel and Judah,

and it describes the promises of God for
the land. Zechariah describes probably the

best picture of the millennial kingdom in
some ways, which it's not Revelation 20,

it's really Zechariah 12, 13, 14.

It describes a time where Jerusalem will
be surrounded and believers all over the

world will be gathered there and
persecuted, and then it says Christ will

come with His holy ones and, like, deliver
them.

Well, in Revelation 19, you have this
description of Christ in heaven, and He's

in heaven with the church,

and there is the wedding in heaven with
the church while Armageddon is happening

on Earth, and then Christ and the bride of
Christ, us, ride with Him. It's perfectly

in line with Zechariah 12, 13, 14. And
then it says that basically when Jesus

talks about these same events in Matthew
24, for example,

it describes these same events. Well,

the tribulation period is basically this
last minute, is just wiping out

non-believers that are basically
threatening the believers on Earth. Now,

those believers on Earth from all
different

tribe, tongues, and nations, right, this
is the big evangelistic crusade during the

tribulation,

um, are gathered, and then there's what's
called the sheep-goat judgment, right? So

you see them separate them. Well, it kind
of goes back to picturing like,

okay, where, where are the believers in
Australia? You guys are gonna be

Australia. Where are the believers in
China? You're gonna be China. Where are

the believers... And so you have this
sense where the whole world will be,

will be... After the tribulation, all
those that aren't believers will be cast

in the outer darkness. They'll be killed,
they'll be, you know, what have you. And

the rest of the world that exists will be
people that survive the tribulation as

believers. And for a thousand years,
there'll be peace and Christ Himself will

reign on the throne. Israel will be the c-
the head nation. During that time, you'll

also have a new Jerusalem, which is
separate from that millennial kingdom.

And at the end of a thousand years, it
says Satan's let go and everyone rebels.

And so for that to happen, that means
people will be having kids during that

time that will see the gospel. And one of
the big controversies is people say,

"Well, what about the temple during that
time?"

-Yeah.
-You know, Ezekiel

40 and the later, latter chapters of
Ezekiel. And the argument is that there

will be a temple. They say, "Well, what
about sacrifices?" I'm like, "Yeah, it

says there will be sacrifices, but,

um, they won't be atoning sacrifices."
This, in that case, would be essentially a

storyline of what Christ had
accomplished. That's the best way to view

it. Thomas Ice has some great articles on
it.

Um,

none of those things would be salvific.
But if you imagine being born 500 years

into the millennium, right?

Christ is reigning, everyone around you
that you know, there's...

Like, there's no one doubting, there's no
bad

governments, right? But you're still, you
still have to

be regenerate. You still have to accept
the gospel. People are still explaining

the gospel. People are living longer,
they're healthier, you don't have

corruption, you have a perfect government.
And then all of a sudden, Satan's let go

and people rebel. And you say, "Well, how
is this?" And the Bible's ultimately

answering this basic question. Our big
challenge is we keep saying to ourselves,

"Man,

I wouldn't sin

if, if I wasn't in such a corrupt place.

I wouldn't sin if I didn't have such a
corrupt, like, body." Or, "I wouldn't sin

if..." And what the Bible's trying to say
is that without God, you would. If you

have a perfect government,

right, with, uh, like perfect peace on all
sides, Satan let- is let go for a time

and you're still gonna rebel,

um, those children born during that time.
Secondly, I think it's fascinating is

imagine 500 years in the future during the
millennium. There's no, no war, perfect

king.

Imagine someone saying, "You know, 500
years ago on the place where Jerusalem is,

there used to be a, an idol temple."
Like, "What?" "Yeah, the Dome of the

Rock." And the Islam like... And there'll
be glorified bodies, people. "You were

alive during that time, remember?" Like,
you can't... Imagine meeting someone 500

years before America was here.

And be like, "Wait, you were..." This is
the picture that we can't even envision.

So you can imagine that the storyline of a
world where Christ isn't reigning is very

similar to the ant- antediluvian, like,
before the flood type thing. So anyways, I

-just went off. That's a lot of stuff.
-Mm-hmm. Antediluvian, I don't even know

-what that means.
-It would be p- pre-flood, just it's the,

the, the, the Nephilim,

-you know?
-Yeah. What, uh, that... I love that,

Abraham's bones, uh, compared to the
living inheritance. Have you preached on

-that before?
-Like, 15 times.

-I'm just giving you a hard time.
-I was about to lose my mind. I was gonna

get up.

I was gonna get up.

That was it.

-Uh, I remember when-
-The last thing I just said, everything I

just said right now in a second wasn't
being crazy, by the way.

-No.
-It all was like... It just sounded crazy,

-but it's not.
-Yep.

-It's awesome.
-Other than the word I didn't know, which

-apparently I should.
-Maybe there's another way to say all the

words I'm saying. I don't know. I got
aspartame.

-Antediluvian.
-I, I, I don't know. Look it up.

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do this
again.

-I'll have Shaun-
-I'm so, I'm so sh- gun shy after saying

-aspartamine.
-Just, like, does it have, like-

-Aspartame.
-I'll just have Shaun, so he texts me what

the actual word is.

-Aspartamine.
-Um, antediluvian, that makes sense.

Why don't you make like a tree and get out
of here? Yes.

Yeah, make like a tree and get out of
here.

-That's great.
-Oh, how the turntables.

Turn tables.

Uh, okay, so you touched on this. Could
there be technology in the new Earth?

-Like, will there be technology?
-Yeah, absolutely. In fact, in my Genesis

commentary, which is coming out soon, it
talks about how, like, the technology of

man isn't bad as it's here. I mean, we...
Of course there will be. Yeah. Awesome.

Love this question. Will we meet biblical
figures such as Moses, Abraham, David,

-Peter, and Paul?
-Yeah. Why wouldn't we? Of course we will.

I mean, Mary.

-Yeah, we're gonna meet them all.
-Will, will I meet Peter, Paul, and Mary?

Yeah, you'll meet Peter, Paul, and Mary.
That's right. I mean, there'll be music in

heaven, musicians. I mean, think of the
bands in heaven, you know?

-Oh, yeah.
-But then think of the bands where you

don't have...

It's just hard to imagine. Like, just
think of the good charity, good faith

you'll have towards people.

-Yeah.
-It...

Like,

when you go root on your best friend, you
root on your wife, you root on your kids,

imagine rooting on your fellow brothers
and sisters in Christ. The, the, the idea

that there's a oneness.

W- it's 1 John, he says that we wanna have
fellowship with one another and our

fellowship is with the Son. I think we
keep thinking of...

We are so individualistic.

I think in heaven there's a sense of
absolute belonging that is so beyond what

we can think of. A community that's so...
You are, you are who you should be. You

are valued for who you should be, and you
value other people for who they should be

without any of the insecurities and
craziness you can imagine. You're truly-

-Mm-hmm
-... happy for people. That oneness is a

big oneness. It's pictured in, in our
world as the sexual relationship.

You know, coming together, that's the
picture of what it means when Christ is,

what, united with the church.

But remember when Paul was Saul and
persecuting the church, he says, "Why are

you persecuting me?" There's an
identification with one another in heaven,

I think, that's gonna be so real

that we don't really reflect on that
enough, that the church is supposed to be

somewhat of a preview of by faith in this,
this side of heaven. So...

Yeah, let's get into... This is such a...
This is a view that I had growing up. I

think it's a view that a lot of people
where I'm from have, just based on my

mom's funeral and things that were said to
me.

This was one of the biggest struggles I
had that day , was, like, going through

this. But Hebrews 12 talks about gr- a
great cloud of witnesses, therefore our

loved ones up in heaven looking down on us
and kind of judging us and encouraging us

and, like,

rooting for us. And do they see everything
we do? Do they know our thoughts? Do they

somehow become omniscient when they get
there?

Yeah, I mean, there is a sense in which

your loved ones could certainly be looking
at you. I mean, why wouldn't they be able

to do that? I just...

You're not as interesting as they think
you think you are. I just think they're

gonna be looking at Christ. They're gonna
be having a...

Like, would you...

Like, are... The, the, the very motivation
to watch, like, the sad... Like, the idea

that they're up there, like, sad or...

-They are not preoccupied with your life.
-Okay.

That's the point.

Um, they are having... The day that, you
know, the day that your mom died was the

-best day of her life.
-Yeah.

-Forever. It was her eternal life.
-Yeah.

That's the idea that we see, but we miss
them, you know?

-Mm-hmm.
-We see that.

But I do think, like, the great cloud of
witnesses, there's a sense of, yeah,

people... The, that reference of witnesses
is pictures of

a race and everyone cheering you on with
Christ at the end, like, kinda cheering

you on.

Um,

so yeah, certainly. I just think we gotta
remember that there,

there's so much to see, so much to do. Our
preoccupation with Christ is bigger than

you can imagine.

You know, if, if your kid was having a
baseball game, would you

watch the game if Christ came back in
front of you? You're like, you'd be like,

"Hold on." You know what I mean? This is
the focus. So

I just think somewhat... I, I think the
main thing is that you, we know Christ and

they're with Him, and that's the, the
part that we just don't treasure enough.

Let me kind of push this to where it,
where it ends up ultimately, is that,

um, I could talk to her right now and she
could hear me.

Yeah.

Um,

I don't... Yeah, I think the problem with
a lot of these ideas of praying to someone

or talking, doesn't say it's like a
conversation, talking to them. I mean,

there's a sense of omni- you need to be
omniscient to hear

the prayers of people. And so, uh, the
only thing I'll say, 'cause I, I've kind

of gone back to this with like... So when
Job

sins, it says all the angels are kind of
like were watching him.

-Mm-hmm.
-Um, so it's, it is possible to watch and

see things clearly. Um,

you know, they're clearly watching the
cross or clearly watching the things. I

just think that the challenge is our
attention. And then secondly,

w- the reason we can be heard in our
prayers to Christ is because we have the

Holy Spirit. That's, that's the,

that's the idea. We have the Holy Spirit
and we pray in the authority of the Son

and the Father hears us. Now, can the
Father hear other people? Yes, but 'cause

He's God. He's omniscient. That's the
idea.

Um, I think the problem with that idea
would be more necromancy. It would be the

-idea that you can talk to the dead.
-Yeah.

-So I, I would just wanna resist that.
-Mm-hmm.

Um, they're not talking to you or
communicating to you when you're not

talking to them. And why would they? You
have direct access to Jesus Christ. You...

Like, right now, you can talk to the Lord
of the universe. And you're like, "Yeah,

but what about that dog over there?" I'm
like, "I don't think we understand."

You're like, "But what does my mom think?"

Yeah, you're like, "What does my mom
think?" Your mom would be like, "Talk to

the Lord of the universe."

-So-
-Why are you asking me?

You have, like, you have, like, the
personal phone number-

-Yeah
-... of-

... God Himself, why would you call, like,
the,

the guy that worked in the garden?

-You know what I mean?
-Yeah.

Like-

-Yeah
-... anyways. But yeah, I think that the

idea that people care for you, I think
it's not... that's not bad, but I think

the thing that they're watching over me is
that they're like... I think we got to...

that... a lot of this becomes kind of
pagan. Like y- like, for J- Japan, you

-have the ancestral worship.
-Mm-hmm.

Um, there's... we gotta be careful because
we... there's a deification that happens

-in this.
-Mm-hmm.

And, uh, your relatives are not deified
beings. They're in heaven, and they're

occupied in heaven with

-Christ.
-Yeah. Amen. Well said.

-Um-
-If they're in... I mean, if someone's in

heaven. Like, if they're not, then they're
occupied-

-Mm-hmm
-...

um, with Christ in hell, is hating them, I
guess. I don't know what else to say. Not

to make anyone feel terrible, but... Are
we gonna talk about hell?

We already... we had a whole episode on
hell.

-We should do it... I, I'm talking about-
-For whatever reason, I, I really put hell

-at the beginning of our, of our series.
-We're gonna talk-

-And then heaven-
-... yeah, talk about it again on tonight's

-thing, which will be two weeks ago now.
-That's... yeah, it'll be two weeks ago. I

-know.
-Justice of God.

Now I'm actually confused. Other than I
know this comes out every Monday, I don't

-know what-
-I can't understand the timing

-... day of the week this is.
-We are time traveling.

But I do wanna get on to... I have two
more kind of categories I wanna go

through. The... this one is just about
crowns and status.

Um, what is the judgment seat of Christ
for the believer? And then

what, what are our crowns? Like, when
we're presented these, do we actually walk

around with crowns? When it talks about
laying them down at the feet of Jesus,

-what does that actually mean?
-Yeah.

-Yeah.
-Well, when we think of crown right now,

and if you were to, like, say, "Oh, we
have crowns," well, Paul talks about the

-crown of righteousness, right?
-Yeah.

-Or the different crowns that we get-
-Crown of life

... as a reward. Crown of life.

There's a sense in which there's rewards
in heaven, and then there's these other

descriptions of crowns. And we be careful
because reward could be more than crowns.

-Mm-hmm.
-But certainly, there's sort of a,

kind of a conflating of the two often.
Like, so th- there's a sense of these

things. But I think the, the analogy gets
cleared up really quickly. The judgment

seat of Christ is... in other words, it
was the bema seat of Christ, and the best

way to view the bema seat of Christ is a
podium.

And so think of it as the Olympic Games.
You have a podium,

first, second, third, however you say it,
and what happens to the winners, they come

up and they would put a wreath on you.

And so the crown is more like a wreath
after winning a game. And so it'd be like

at the end of a thing, people saying, "Oh,
we're gonna reward the most improved or

-the most-"
-Mm-hmm.

"... and here's the things you get." But
then what are... what's our response to

those things is to give all glory to
Christ and lay them down at the feet of

Christ. In other words, we're not trying
to hoard up our thing. The... a, a neat

way to say it is, we all, when we see
Christ, we'll just wanna give everything

we have to Him. Like, all... He's our
greatest treasure. There's nothing we need

more than Him. And we'll be given these
things, and we're like, "Ooh, I have a

present I can give Him." And so the idea
that you have more reward gives you more

opportunities to just lay these things
down and to give to Christ. Like, there's

a sense in which, like, generosity is
supposed to be the same. Again, you get a

preview of this on Earth in giving, right?
Second Corinthians 8:9 describes that God

will, uh, keep giving you,

when you're generous, more to continue to
be generous, to bring the praise of God. I

think there's a sense in which that's
sort of the picture of reward in heaven as

well. What, what's a higher reward than
getting to, getting to praise the one that

is our favorite? Again, that's alien to
us right now because we say this, but we

can't feel this the way we want to.

And so that's,

that's... but that's the picture. I don't
know if that helps.

It does help.

Um, kind of on that same tone, will some
Christians have greater authority than

others in heaven? You're like, "I'm
bringing four crowns. This guy had two

crowns."

Well, I wouldn't say the crown has to do
with authority, but I do... the Bible

does... like, at one point in, I think,
First Corinthians 6-

-Higher
-... Paul says that... he says, like, "Why

would you bring your court cases to oth-
to non-believers? Don't you know that

-we're going to judge angels?"
-Mm-hmm.

And so

the church itself is given the ability...
we're gonna... so for example, the promise

often is that people would be citizens of
the Kingdom of Heaven or what have you.

We're...

this goes back to the millennial language.
We are not gonna be citizens. We are

gonna be co-reigners

with Christ. We're literally gonna be
reigning with Him. And when Paul says,

"Don't you know we're gonna be judging
angels," like, uh, the... just go back a

step to the idea of the marriage of Christ
and the church. We're like... we're

considered united to Him in a special way,

and so we get to take part in these things
like judgment and just... so

does... how does that work? Well, Paul
gives some hints to that, right? If you've

been faithful in a little, you'll be
faithful in much. And so

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Maybe
some people will have less th- I, I don't

know. And we'll go forever, so there's a
sense in which some people will be given

more

than others to do, I imagine. Um-

-Yeah
-... but I don't think anyone would resent

anyone else for it. I don't think
ambition... the only ambition we'll have

there would be to

see the good in others and want their
best. Like, it's just... it... heaven is

so much about us... uh, it is a place, it
is with Christ, but it is about us being

who we were invent- like, created to be.

-We'll be like Him, so.
-Yeah, if we,

um,

say as, as we would say, like, someone
who's wasted their Christian life, like,

they, they are saved, they're a baby
Christian, they just kind of go on, like,

not pouring in the church, not really
sharing the Gospel. They're... they are a

believer,

but their life is just, like, filled with
flaw.

And then someone who has just pursued the
Lord his whole life, when they stand at

that judgment seat, is the person who's
kind of wasted their life, or if there is

no more sadness or tears, are they gonna
actually feel bad that they wasted their

-life?
-I think, yeah. I mean, Fir- First

Corinthians 3, Paul describes that we're
all gonna go, but our works will be tested

-through fire.
-Yeah.

But when we say works, we think of them,
like, what is... how do you test your

works? I, I do think if you look at that
same chapter, he starts off and says that,

you know, you're God's fil- field, and
we're like... God's building, and we're

like the workmen, and the foundation is
Christ. I think that the works that he's

describing uniquely speaks to making
disciples, because that's the task Christ

gave us, right? So it's not just like,
"Hey, you gave this money to charity, and

you, uh, crossed the street for that
person." I doubt that's gonna be what

we're really thinking through as much as,

yeah, that'll be acknowledged, I think.
But there's a sense in which making

disciples and the part we have and our
investment in that is a big thing. But

what is the picture of it? It says that
your work will be tested through fire. So

gold,

wood, hay, stubble, straw, and then the
precious metals, like the gold and the

silver and the...

and whatever's burned up through fire.
Well-

Think of all the people right now that are
invested in building churches based on

sort of seeker-sensitive type thing. It's
just like in an, an agrarian society,

wood, hay, stubble, and straw is stuff
that you see around you all the time. And

so just kind of like the three little
pigs, you can build a house of it really

big and really quick, but it won't last.
And so there's... And that's true for

today. There's a lot of people that they
give them just enough Christ so people

will show up, so they can claim to be big
and claim to be effective and claim to be,

but they're not disciples. And think of
what happens. Let's say that pastor is a

genuine believer and he gets to heaven

and none of his church is there.

-Mm-hmm.
-He's still gonna be glorifying Christ, and

he'll be glorifying Christ and loving him
despite the fact he didn't bring it. So I

think the reward isn't just the crowns,
isn't just this. It's that the people

you've invested in, the, the things you've
done are actually there.

I think that's a, a- another way to maybe
keep that text in mind. So,

um, it says that they'll suffer, but
they'll still make it kind of thing. So I

don't know. This isn't suffering in like
pain and torment. This is more just like,

yeah, this is a missed opportunity.

Um, it'd be like saying

if you, when you find out that you sold...
you bought a pizza with your Bitcoin and

now it's worth billions and billions. And
I think the Bible's constantly reminding

us that the opportunities we have,

the things that we spend our time on and
the things we're focused on are...

they're often waste. Paul talks about
redeeming the time and because the days

are evil, like using our time wisely and
focus on the right things. And so this is

true for your kids. It doesn't matter what
college your kids go to. It doesn't

matter what job your kids go to. You raise
your kids in the Lord and give them the

heritage of the Lord, and you'll be with
them forever in heaven. And the idea that

you could be distracted by other things,
yeah, you might regret the fact that, "Oh,

my kid went to

college and did this and then this," and
then you know they're not in heaven with

you.

Now,

why? You won't, you won't think they
should be if they're not believers. You'll

be like,

grace is gonna be the thing that's alien
to us. We're gonna be like... But yeah,

-those are opportunities.
-Yeah. Do you, do you think that's

categorically the only area where we would
actually feel sadness in heaven?

I don't know that sadness is even the
right word. Now,

and this goes back to what I'm t- what the
justice is.

Justice and God's justice is that nobody
will think... So when I say justice,

justice is another way of describing that
everything that God does is right.

-Mm-hmm.
-And so there's no place in heaven or hell

where someone's going to look at God and
think that it should be a different way.

No one should be like, "I think it should
have been here." Everyone's gonna be like,

"Wow, that's exactly how it ought to be."
And it'll all be fit in the place. Like,

"I'm where I ought to be. I'm where... You
know, I should be there, but look at what

Christ did. Well, because Christ did it,
I certainly ought to be here because look,

he paid that price." Like, there's no...
All the sort of like calculus that we have

that favors... Again, I want the scales
hard for you, but easy for me. That's

-gone.
-Mm-hmm.

We're gonna see the scales as they
actually are, and everyone will know as it

actually is, and God will be fully
glorified. But this attribute of his

justice, the Bible describes it. God loves
his justice, and we will love it too when

we see

everything's been done right and decently
and in order. There's not one person in

hell that will think that they got a bad
gig.

-Hmm.
-Not one b- not one bit. And if one person

in hell suffers one bit more than they
should,

then God's not just. His justice is
perfect down to the minute detail, both in

heaven and in hell, both in his praises
and the things he's doing for his praises

and for his punishments. And so

that's the, that's the, the final answer,
if that makes sense.

It does. Yeah, man. That's really
encouraging. It's the first time I learned

-something on the podcast.
-Yeah, right? We'll see what happens. Yeah.

I learn stuff all the time.

Maybe you start watching the Tuesday
nights.

Well, I realize that...

-I'm just sticking on that one.
-I, I found this niche where people don't

know if I'm... You don't even know if I'm
asking a question to prod you or if I'm

-genuinely asking you a question.
-I don't know anything.

And so half the time...

Most of the time I'm just prodding you,
but sometimes I'm genuinely interested,

-uh, because I don't know the answer.
-You're like, "That time I was genuinely

-learning something."
-So yeah, exactly. But, uh, last question

on this that we're gonna get into, and if
you have more questions on heaven, send

-them into the A Lot of Words podcast.
-Maybe we do another one later because

-there's so much more we could talk about.
-Go to aLotofWordsPodcast.com. Click on the

Ask a Question button. If you wanna
sponsor the show, click on that same

-button.
-Oh, yeah. We-

If you just wanna give us a shout-out,
also click that button. Our meeting

started four minutes ago. Uh, last
question on heaven. Will we literally see

God

face to face?

Um,

-I, I think we'll see Jesus.
-Mm-hmm.

I think God is

-invisible. He's spirit.
-Yep.

And so we'll see,

we'll see... Like, for example, in Rev-
Revela- Revelation, um, four, there's a

throne room. There's an approachable
light. You'll see those light. You'll see

that stuff. But I don't think we could
look at God. I mean, if you... Can you

-look at the sun and live?
-Hmm.

Like, your eyes would melt.

The idea that you can look at the one who
spoke that into existence, one of many

billions of suns,

that you could just stare at him and be
okay with it, that's the whole point of

the incarnation, that God is... that we
can see the Father. He says, "If you see

me, you see the Father." So I think the
visible picture of God we will see in

-heaven will be Christ.
-Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. I think we'll see
manifestations of the Father,

but the idea that we see him, he's
invisible. Now,

you know, but those manifestations means
we'll, we, we couldn't grasp.

-We couldn't see him.
-Yeah.

-That's my view.
-Great view. Thanks again for talking all

about heaven on this topic. My last, does
it slap? Baboons, otherwise known as

-baboons.
-There's like... They, they are amazingly

slappy, but there's a guy I heard, an MMA
fighter that was supposed to fight a

baboon.

And, uh, no one knows if it's real or not.

-Get out of here.
-Yes. And so... No, no. And they've been

promoting it. I'm like, "This is... How
could they even... Does a baboon know?"

-A baboon.
-The, the baboon. Um, but these baboons are

gnarly. Like, they could rip your face
off.

There's a lady that had a baboon for a
pet, and it like

ripped her face off, like literally just
peeled it off. They are buffer than you

can imagine and awesomer.

I love baboons. A, a baboon...

Basically, she was... It was, uh, her pet,
and it grabbed her face and ripped it

off.

-What? That's awesome.
-And I think, I think it's on video.

Th- these things, uh, they can...

They are so strong and so awesome.

And they're the ones with no hair on their
cheeks.

I don't know. They're not the ones with
the butt cheeks. Do you mean butt cheeks?

-Yeah.
-I don't know. I mean, they... I always

-think of the orange ones that are like-
-Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are those?

-Orangutans?
-Yeah. Look at us.

All right. Always ending the podcast well.

All I know is baboons can rip your face
off.

-Baboons can rip faces off.
-Ugh.

-Are baboons the ones with the...
-Yeah.

-Oh, yeah, yeah.
-If you put your hand like this. Yeah.

I know. I mean, the amount, the volume
that I've watched that guy punch that

kangaroo in Australia. I mean, I watch
that video at least once a week.

Like a bear, if it went like this, it
would just cut your head off.

-You're dead. Yeah.
-It would just ni- literally knock it off.

-Bears are so gnarly.
-Mm. Bears, baboons, Battlestar Galactica.

All right. Shout out to Sean C. in the
comments. He's the one putting this whole

thing together. It would not happen
without him. He will be on vacation. We're

still gonna be here. We're gonna record
two more episodes next week. So shout out

to Sean C. in the comments. Make sure you
thank him. If you see him at church or

know him or want to know him, come up to
me at Barabbas Road Church.

-Come to Barabbas Road Church.
-And come to Barabbas Road Church.

Everything Matt talked about, go to
barabbas.com. We also have the Barapp,

which is the Barabbas Road Church app. You
can, uh, find his Tuesday night teachings

and his Sunday teachings on there, as
well as all the other pastors' teaching.

We will see you next week. We'll have a
Q&A episode, I'm pretty sure, or I may

think of a topic. I like that. It keep,
keep everyone guessing.

-Heaven part three.
-Love it.

Let's keep doing heaven.

-Just 20 episodes on heaven.
-We need some encouragement. Let's just

-keep going to heaven.
-You're like, "What's a better, uh-"

-I love this.
-"... better topic than heaven?"

You guys keep wanting to be the ones where
I like make everyone mad, so I'm sure

there'll be people mad about the heaven
stuff too, so.

Yes. Um, I just got a text that I'm
teaching Thursday. I forgot about that.

All right, we gotta go. We have another
meeting.

-All right. We'll see you all next week.
-See ya.

-Hey, Matt, you know what really slaps?
-What?

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