A Lot of Words

What exactly is abortion, and does the
Bible ever explicitly mention abortion?

-Um, can, can I just be honest?
-Well, what about in the case of rape or

-incest?
-When someone says, "My body, my choice,"

what you're saying is, "I should have
ownership over my own body."

I'm anti-abortion, except in the case of
rape or incest.

Yeah. Let me just say this. If that's your
position right now, you are in sin,

-period.
-One argument was, "I don't think

Christians should impose their beliefs-
... about abortion on people who aren't

-Christian."
-And this big dude turns around and says,

"Don't you put your beliefs on me." And
I'm like, "Like you're doing to me right

now?" And he's like...

Welcome back to the A Lot of Words
podcast. I'm Brett Schaeneck. Joining with

me, as always, is Senior Pastor Matt
Smith, putting the senior in senior

pastor, you old grandpa,

uh, here at A Lot of Words podcast. What
are we doing? We are answering the

-questions-
-So gray in your beard.

We are answering the questions. When you
interrupted me the other week, I was like,

-"I'll get him back with my senior."
-You have so much gray in your beard.

-You're, you're just as grandpa-y as me.
-Putting the senior in senior pastor. I've

been, I've been holding onto that line for
a while.

-Hmm.
-And I just got to use it.

-Hmm.
-Uh, never shall you interrupt my intros

-ever again.
-Never shall you.

-Yeah. I will-
-Henceforth, henceforth I plan not to. See,

-I used the word.
-I will not tolerate your insolence.

I had a plan. We'll just b- pause. I was
telling him something the other day. I

said, "Here's your, here's your rule for
the next week. Every day, how many days

-can you use the word henceforth-
-Oh, yeah

... but in serious conversation with no
explanation?"

-Mm-hmm.
-Watching this video, let's all try it. I

-wanna make a thing, just like-
-Yeah

-... henceforth-
-Okay

... do it, but then don't draw attention
to it and try to do it where someone

doesn't think it's weird. Just do it in
normal conversation and don't draw

attention to it. How many days

can we go? This is like Fight Club, but
with, like,

words.

-Yeah. It's word fight.
-No, it's not supposed to be... Henceforth

-is a great word. Yeah.
-It is.

-I love it.
-That's good. That's a good start.

-Sorry, back to intro.
-Yep, back to intro. Uh, this is A Lot of

Words podcast. What are we doing here? We
are answering the questions you, the

listeners, actually ask. If you have a
question you want to an- have us answer on

the podcast, go to alottofwords.com,
alottofwordspodcast.com. Click on the big

blue Ask a Question button, submit your
question. We will either answer it live on

the show or turn it into an entire
episode- ... like we did this one, uh,

which is on abortion. Next week, we're
gonna be talking about... Uh, it's

actually next week is a full Q&A, so next
week will be all the-

We're talking about abortion today, though

... putting A's on all the Q's. Uh, this
week, we're talking about abortion. They

already know it because it's in the title,

-uh, but I just like to say it.
-Ah.

We come, uh, to your YouTube or podcast
inbox every Monday morning. That's when

this show releases. We record Tuesday
afternoon- noons. I'm saying most of this

so Matt here is reminded, one, where he
is, what day it is, and that it's Monday

-and the listener hears-
-I zoned out on what you were talking about

-for a second.
-That was kind of fast.

I'm just focused on the fact that it feels
like you're setting me up after two weeks

of talking about something happy like
heaven. You're like, "Let's just make Matt

-get a little mad."
-You know what we realized about the data

on the podcast is no one cares about
heaven, but they... Again, they do really

care about not asking the person's dad
that they wanna marry.

-That's so funny.
-Our... Still to this day, our biggest clip

is sh- can I ask,

uh, my future wife's father-in-law for his
hand in marriage?

I feel like those aren't gonna have any
comments.

No. They just wanna know. Uh, Christian
nationalism was good. If you didn't listen

to that episode, encourage you to go
back, listen to our Christian nationalism

episode. It's got... Probably by this
point, it's gonna have about 1,200 views

on the long form. Um, I thought you did a
great job.

Well, that's ni- I like that
encouragement. It seems like everyone-

-Yeah
-... was mad at me.

-I'll adulate.
-Yeah.

Yeah, Matt earlier was like, "I feel like
everyone was mad at us." And I said,

"Correction, everyone was mad at you."

Yes,

-yes. They hate me 'cause they ain't me.
-They hate you. They hate us. Well, let's

calm down with this us language.

-Uh.
-Uh, our show is, um,

brought to you by Logos Bible Software. If
you wanna take your Bible reading... Not

Bible reading, but Bible study to the next
level, go to a lot of... or go to

-logos.com.
-Go to A Lot of Words, Logos.

-I am-
-You're doing the whole thing-

-I know
-... where they give a drug. They're like-

-Yeah
-... Xenaphil is like maybe...

There'll be a link that come... I- I've
never wanted to redo a whole intro more

-than I do right now.
-You cannot redo it. And, and you cannot

-redo it.
-That violates rule number one, that we

-will never edit anything on the show.
-Henceforth.

Henceforth, I'm gonna continue...

I was about to use that too. Henceforth,
I'm gonna continue with the intro.

Uh, yeah, Logos is one of our sponsors. If
you want a 60-day free trial of Logos,

uh, there's a link below that's gonna come
up on the screen. Shing.

And, uh, you can click on that, get a
60-day free trial, and, um, it will

improve and hopefully encourage you to
study the Bible even more.

Let's see. Senior and senior pastor,
check. Logos, check.

-Um, what does this say?
-When you say brought to you by-

-Abortion check
-... it's like...

-I feel like-
-Bob Barker?

That's not... I feel like that's not the
right word.

Um, sponsor. They're a sponsor of the
show.

-Brought to you partially by.
-Yeah.

-I don't know. Like, how do you-
-Brought to you in part by.

-Yeah.
-That's how PBS used to do it.

-Really?
-Brought to you in part by listeners like

-you. That's what they used to say.
-Hmm. Oh, wait, we're listener supported.

You know why? Because when I was growing
up, our TV had a knob on it that you had

to go adjust, and it had two channels. And
one of them was channel two, and it was

-PBS.
-That sound... You sound extra old saying

-that.
-Yeah. Well, it was... I'm old, and I grew

-up really poor.
-Oh, dear.

-Tick both boxes.
-Yeah. Um-

And I remember just pa- me and my brother
would just fight

for 20 minutes about who was gonna go
change the knob to the other channel. And

looking back, I was like, you know, I
probably would have exerted way less

-energy had I just gone up and turned it.
-By the way, we're, we're doing a thing

called bantering right now. This is just
talking, and I feel like you don't... I

was, like, ready to have a conversation
with you before this, and you didn't want

me to talk to you. You said, "Wait till we
turn on the camera."

-That's true.
-And it reminded me, I'm like, well, gosh,

you're like, I sh- we should just have a
camera when we talk, right?

-Yeah.
-Uh, but I went surfing because you

-couldn't go.
-Yeah, 'cause I got a... I did get the

tattoo, like I told everyone I was going
to. Tim was in town. We got these matching

tattoos. It's upside down on the camera.
It's two matches. One's on fire. And every

s- Carrie's like, "Well, why'd you get
that?" I'm like, "I don't know. I thought

it looked cool." I don't know why everyone
needs a tattoo with some sort of story.

-Well-
-I just, I just like... Certain things I

just like, and I'm gonna put them on my
body forever. I don't see... That's, like,

-a normal thing to do.
-Hmm. I don't know.

I wanted something with a flame,

-and I got it.
-And so now you're a flamer.

-I'm a flamer. Flame-
-Um-

-Flame on.
-So-

W- anyways, you weren't surfing today. We
have our board meeting-

-Yep, I wasn't surfing-
-... Tuesday morning

-... 'cause I didn't wanna-
-So Pastor Trey-

-... submerge the tattoo
-... myself, Pastor Brett like to go

surfing as our board meeting.

And, uh, Noah, young Noah. Do you know the
guy from-

-Oh, young No- he's in my life group.
-Yeah, so he showed up to surf-

-He's the best
-... with us, and that was really fun.

-That's great.
-But anyways, he had a comment that I

thought was hilarious. He said, "I really
like the talk in the beginning, the

-banter." I was like, "Huh."
-Yeah.

Yeah, there's someone that likes the
banter.

-Yeah, shout out Noah. Noah's-
-Yeah

-... the best.
-We gotta get Noah a mug.

-Yeah, I should get-
-Are, are we out of mugs?

-We're out of mugs.
-Okay. Well, never mind, Noah.

We need mugs.

-Um, uh, when do we become a non-profit?
-If you like the A Lot of Words podcast,

it's gonna be going away soon.

-No. Hey, but I did say to Brett-
-We...

... "Let's do this. Let's get

a tattoo, A Lot of Words tattoo or
something, at some sort of, like,

-benchmark-
-That's true

-... of the, of the channel."
-Yeah.

And, uh,

and he's like, "Yeah, well, what should it
be?" So we... I think it should be... I

don't know. We'll come up with something,
but some kind of... You maybe... Hey, in

the comments, you come up- ... with some
kind of benchmark you think

we ought to hit for this channel for Brett
and I to get a neck tattoo that says A

Lot of Words. Not a neck tattoo. We would
never do something like that.

Well, I thought about it more. I am-

-Low back tattoo.
-Our, uh, our... They're all gonna put the

dumbest numbers ever.

I think 10,000. I would... The problem is,
I would do it right now. Like, if you

-were like-
-I know. That's the problem

-... "Hey, right after this show-
-I know

-... let's go get a tattoo."
-I- i- if you were the, like... 'Cause

what... Like, but

some kind of benchmark, and then we gotta
see who else wants to do it with us.

-I had... This is a true-
-How many people wanna take this?

-Yeah.
-And it just... And it can't say podcast.

-It just has to say A Lot of Words.
-No, I wanna, I want... I literally want a

mug with A Lot of Words. I'm gonna get a
mug tattoo.

-That would be-
-It could've fit there, and I showed it...

I, I showed it to the guy, but Tim was not
willing to get it.

-Well, that's-
-Our goal is we want-

-... silly
-... we were gonna get something we both

-wanted.
-Well, when... I... Here's my plan.

-But I did have-
-This is totally irresponsible of me, but

my plan is-

-Yeah
-... gosh, this is silly. So,

but when we decide we hit some benchmark
that the people in the comments say,

then we say on the day we're gonna go, and
then we say, "Who wants to go with us?"

-And do you think anyone would go with us?
-Maybe.

-Maybe. How, how fun would that be?
-I had a buddy-

That's very... That... Maybe that's kinda
culty, though. But just, it's fun.

I had a buddy who was... Uh, this was
early on in the church. They were just

saved. One of the... You know, they were
in BUD/S, um, Navy SEAL training,

and he wanted to get a tattoo really bad,
but he wouldn't go alone. And I was like,

"You..." I said, "You can put anything
smaller than a quarter, and I will put it

anywhere on my body."

I said, "I want you to get a tattoo so bad
that I'll do that." And he backed out,

and he had a tiny little dolphin. It was
this tiny little dolphin- ... and he

-wanted me to put it-
-It was a guy with... For you?

He... No, no, no. It was me. He was like,
"You gotta get a dol-" He's like, "I'm

-gonna get this tattoo that I want."
-Oh.

But he's like, "You need to come with me."
And I was like... I said, "I d- I'll do

that. You can pick out any tattoo." So it
was this little dol- this little dolphin

with a star above it, and he wanted me to
put it, like, right up- ... like, right

-up-
-You can't say that

... right above, right above my underwear
line. And the best part is he chickened

-out.
-Oh my goodness.

-I was fully committed.
-That is-

-Yep
-... that's inappropriate. That's sinful.

-Nope. I woulda had a-
-That is totally bad

... I woulda had a little dolphin right on
my stomach there and...

I told you my favorite idea is, uh, is the
Treasure Trolls, I think last week I told

-you.
-Yeah, Treasure Trolls.

-Thug Life, it said on his low back-
-Mm-hmm

... but then there's a... He X'd out the
T, so it said Hug Life.

How many tattoos do you have, like, 20 or
something?

-I have a few.
-Yeah.

It's okay. Um-

-Uh, it is okay.
-Mine are all tasteful and unnoticeable.

-It doesn't matter. Tattoos are awesome.
-Unlike your,

your, uh,

you know,

tattoos.

All right, so... All right. I thi- I'm
not... I have nothing to say.

-That's it.
-Didn't you... And, and then didn't you-

-I w-
-... want me to read comments? I was

starting to read comments. You just told
me to stop.

-Well-
-Maybe there's no time.

There is. There's not a lot of time today.
The topic's pretty heavy, and-

... I, I'm kind of being remiss to do
questions

just because we're so short on time this
week and next week,

and next week is all Q&A. Usually, this is
the time on the show where we will answer

the questions that you actually ask.

But for time purposes, I wanna get right
into the content for this week.

And isn't that also questions they asked
you, so that's still fair?

-It's also-
-We're still doing it. You're not-

Yeah, these topic... This topic was chosen
because we've received a bunch of

-questions on it.
-On abortion?

-Yeah.
-From Christians and people?

From people who listen to the podcast. I
don't know if they're Christians or not,

-but they're people who-
-All right. Let's, let's get into it.

Matt, these are people who go to
thealotofwordspodcast.com. They've clicked

on the Ask a Question button- ... and
I've received their questions.

-Yeah.
-Um, so we will not do any questions this

week, but at the end, if... I... Even if
it's for a minute, I wanna do the new

segment where you read your own TikTok
tweets.

-I just... I don't... I'm not on TikTok.
-Or what are... Are they called Tics?

-TikTok Tics.
-If they're called Tics, that's really

-hilarious.
-Sean C, are TikTok comments called Tics?

Uh, I haven't heard of them.

-Where... If it's called Tics-
-That was the most played the fifth ever. I

don't even know what, I don't even know
what TikTok is.

-I, but, but-
-I've never-

-... I'm just saying-
-I've never seen a c- I've never seen a

-computer.
-... if people see the shorts and comment

on the shorts, every single person that
sees the shorts, like, none of them have

-watched an episode. It's clear.
-That was great.

And I... So we like that engagement-

... but it is hilarious to me that in my
mind, I have to separate between the

ridiculously, absolutely-

-Yeah
-... insane, dumb person on TikTok that

sees a short, which we like that they
click it-

-Mm-hmm
-... and the person that actually watches

an episode.

Um, those are... That's a different crew
of people, I guess.

That's good. I, I still like Sean C. I
just... I don't even know what a computer

is. I...

-I'm not even here right now. This is a-
-Oh, dear. So, okay

-... I'm an AI sim.
-All right.

All right. Well, this topic this week is
abortion, as I said. So Matt, I'm gonna

start with a few questions. Uh, first is,
what exactly is abortion, and does the

-Bible ever explicitly mention abortion?
-Hmm.

Yeah.

-Um, c- can I just be honest? This-
-Be honest.

It's just like, you know, you just... I
just don't wanna talk about abortion. But,

you know what? That's what's perfect
about this.

-Mm-hmm.
-You know?

C- can I just tell you where I'm living
for a second in my mind?

-Yep.
-All right.

It's like when someone... I remember I was
doing jujitsu with somebody,

and

I had my mouthpiece in, and we, uh, we, we
slapped hands to roll.

-Mm-hmm.
-And my... I have a tattoo that says, "I am

-Barabbas."
-Mm-hmm.

And he's like, "What's your tattoo say?"
Right as we're starting to go,

he's like, "I'm a badass?" I'm like, "No,
no, no. It says I am Barabbas." He goes,

"Oh." And so we start to roll, and then
he's, like,

pauses in the middle of the roll, and he
goes, "Isn't he the bad guy?" And I'm

like-

I don't wanna tell him, like, I, I, I
don't wanna t- I wanna just fight.

-Yeah.
-Like, and so I'm like, "No," and I explain

the thing. "Well, he's the guy that
should have gone, and then really Jesus

took his place, and then you're the son of
the Father." And I'm like, "Okay, let's

go." And afterwards, I was so annoyed with
myself that I didn't like, "Hey, I'm

here. I wanna share the gospel. That's the
important thing." And then later, he

ended up asking more questions, and it
worked out. I just wasn't in the right

mind space for it. But I think there's
something to be the fact that, like,

y- we have to be ready to talk about
things. And so you're gonna basically

provoke me, and I'm going to come up with
something. But I'm just saying-

-Yeah
-...

I'm not... I'm feeling real happy, and
abortion makes me so angry. Um, yeah,

abortion is the murder of children, uh, in
the womb. That's what it is. And so

the,

the, even the word abortion

is meant to create a,

uh... It's meant to distance the act from
any moral or any sort of pejorative thing.

Like, abortion, we all know it's bad

now, but it's just

no one calls it baby murder.

No one calls it anything. That's, but
that's what it is. You're murdering a, a

child in the womb is what abortion is. Um,

and so now there, there might be
situations where,

like, the baby's already died or something
else. That's also it... The removal of

that is kind of maybe would be called like
a D&C and things like that. So

there's different medical terms that

go into it, but in the most basic form, I
think what we need to realize is that

name, the name is half the debate,

is there's a baby in a womb, and abortion
is the ending of that baby's life and

removing of that baby,

and that's the, what it is. Um, the second
part of the question was, does the Bible

say anything about it? Well, yes, it does,

but we gotta be careful 'cause there's a
couple places. I actually went on a

podcast, I don't know, a while ago. Right
next to our church is a True, True Choice

Pregnancy Center, and they have a podcast.
I went on it, and because somebody was

saying

that the story in, um, Leviticus, I think,
where the woman's belly swells, they're

like, "Oh, that's a, that's the Old
Testament abortion."

I mean, it's such an offensive take, and
it just sh- shows how people would twist

the Bible. So I answered that that's not
what that is.

Um, it doesn't even say she's pregnant.
That's a stupid argument. Like, if someone

makes that argument, they don't love the
Bible. That is not a genuine person. But,

um, but the place that we do see abortion
mentioned in the Bible is with the, the

god Molech and child sacrifice. And I, and
I, I hate... I, I wanna be careful

because

my wife used to be the director at the
College Area Pregnancy Services, um,

which is a pro-life pregnancy center,

and we really love them as a church. We...
You know, they have a big golf

-tournament-
-They have a great golf tournament.

-Yeah.
-Yeah.

But so we've been in, in the, in this
space, I guess, for a long time. And the

first thing I wanna say is like, I don't
wanna villainize a woman who's had an

abortion insofar

as saying that God's grace can cover you.
I just wanna say the front end, God's

grace can cover you. God can forgive you.

It... We're in a culture where you could
be misled.

Um, I don't...

I do think there's a difference between
maybe a bit of ignorance, a bit of

selfishness perhaps, but maybe just a bad
situation and panic. Um, if that's

something, if you had an abortion, like,
no, like, there's grace for you. Let's

talk. We love you.

Let's go. There's, there's... But

the act itself is a heinous evil, and

it's couched under this empathetic sort of
like, "Well, you're, you might feel this

way, and you might feel that way,"

but... Or, "Oh, the baby might have a

deformity, or they might have..." And so
there's all these sorts of reasons where

folks try to validate why abortion might
be a reasonable thing. But in the Bible,

the word child sacrifice,

I think, is probably the most pejorative
way to describe it.

And in... They used to have this, this
statue, the, of, of, of an idol called

Molech, the fire god, and

what, what he looked like, he looked like
a big mouth. Like, and so the top of his

mouth was a mouth, and the bottom of his
mouth was actually hands that went like

this,

right? And then what people would do, and
then there'd be a fire coming up from the

bottom. And so people would take their
babies and, uh,

you know, wrapped up babies, and they
just, like, put them on the hands, and the

baby would roll into the fire and burn
up.

And the reason people would sacrifice
their children to Molech was usually for,

for, for fertility

or, um, not fertility. I mean, like, for,
um,

uh, for, like, crops, like, so that the
land would have crops, or they might have

prosperity, or they might have,

you know, all sorts of things.

You know, you saw this in the Bible for
sure. Um, so-and-so would sacrifice a

child. But in all those cases, these were
living children.

The idea of a baby in the womb, um,

it doesn't really describe it,

it so much. These were born children,
right? Uh, the Bible describes, for

example, John the Baptist in the womb, in
Elizabeth's belly,

uh, leaping, uh, when Mary comes in with
Jesus in the womb. So this isn't a clump

of cells. This is the Bible making a case
that John the Baptist is a person, an

actual person,

and he's the first one to recognize Jesus,
so to speak, in the womb. I mean, that's

in the Gospels. Um,

you, you sort of see this picture all the
way through the Bible, the way that it

just speaks of these things. I mean,
talking about, like, the double homicide

issue in the Old Testament, which we
actually still have in the law today, like

if a pregnant woman is,

you know... So,

um,

but abortion itself, I think our, our
version of abortion that people have

today, I think child sacrifice still is
appropriate because the reasons for it

are just as, are so similar, right? Like,
"Well, I don't wanna miss out on college.

I don't wanna miss out on this
opportunity," or, "Or it would be so hard

for me." And,

you know, abortion is the ultimate... The
reason abortion is such a big issue right

now in terms of

politics in America is that it's the, it's
the linchpin issue for feminism.

All right? So abortion and contraception
is the number one thing that's supposed to

free women

from the bounds of patriarchy because all
of a sudden, they're freed from the, the

penalties

of sex outside of marriage. And so

because both those things lead to
children,

um, once you free them from that, then
they're freed from the bounds of

patriarchy. And so the, the linchpin of
women's healthcare, women's rights,

there's a reason abortion to them is
viewed as the sort of sacrosanct. It's a,

it's a...

... sort of a left-wing, um,

you know,

what do I wanna call it? Like, uh,

what's the word when you... Hmm.

Well, you get it. Sacrament. It's like a
left-wing sacrament. It's like a big deal.

And you'll get there, but I think if you
watch what's happened recently

in history,

we've watched

the reality of the issue come to bear. So
back in the day,

and you can ask questions. Like, I just
gotta get all this all out in the front

end. Yeah, yeah. Back in the day,
abortion,

you know, as a, as a culture, we still had

a bit more of a Christian sort of
romantic,

um,

sort of emotional reaction, even if, uh,
people didn't necessarily have a s- a

sound of faith,

you know, as they might have had in the
past. Um,

well,

what happened was... I have a cold. Um,

people would talk about abortion, like,
the, the thing about Bill Clinton, Hillary

Clinton, they would talk about like, "We
need to make abortion safe, legal, and

rare." So even on the folks that were

considered pro-choice, even if they were
pro-abortion, that were pro-choice, they,

they recognized that abortion was a bad
thing,

but then they would try to say, "Well,
it's necessary." But they're still trying

to play the feminist card.

And then you move forward to now where
people are like... And, and at that time,

they would debate about when life begins,
right? That used to be the debate people

had. And so if you ever look at old school
debates, they're like, "When does life

begin?" This is an actually irrelevant
debate right now, and we'll get to it with

Lindsay Clancy. But the, the reason they
used to say, "When does life begin?" was,

well, if you could say life began at
conception, then they would say, "Well,

that would be bad." And if, and if you
say, "Well, life begins late..." You know,

so late-term abortion, all that stuff,

uh, that debate kind of assumed that
people saw, well, once you admit that it's

life, maybe you shouldn't do it. Does
that make sense? Like, that was sort of

the

implication from even that debate in the
first place. But now

people don't even deny that it's life.
They don't deny that it's a person or

that, that it's life. They're saying
whether it's a person, and that goes along

with, like, who gets to choose,

you know, do you...

So that, that, that's the idea. Like,
when, who gets to declare that person a

person? And so th- that's why the abortion
goes along with

things like the transgender movement,
where like, I get to declare myself this.

Well, I can... now I can declare that this
child, I want this child, so now it's

gonna get to have life. But if I don't
want this child, it's just a clump of

cells.

That... You know, the, the irony, the, the
juxtaposition where we live in a society

where we're supposed to mourn when Sally
down the street has a miscarriage,

but think it's nothing when she has an
abortion. It's like, "How dare you? It's

my own business." Like, we're not gonna
mourn that, you know? So if some- like,

for if someone had... You talk to a
leftist person that believes this, "Hey, I

had an abortion." You're like, "Oh, man.
Well, you'll... Th- that... See that child

one day?" Like, they'd be, like, offended
at it.

But if someone has a miscarriage, like,
"Well, it's just a clump of cells," they'd

be offended at that. And so it's... it
really goes back to, like, my wishes being

the key. And, and just a selfish, sort of
narcissistic society,

um, is not just the

big, you know, sort of sacrament of
feminism, but sort of self-centered,

um,

you know, self-deification, the ability to
give and take life we take for ourselves.

And so,

yeah, abortion is the murder of children.
It's in the Bible as child sacrifice

typically. Um, and that's... I don't know.

I, I said a lot of things. Yeah. That was,
that was good. I think, uh, I just wanted

to add to, you know, you brought up John
the Basset- Baptist, Psalm 139.

Um, "God knitted me together in my
mother's womb." Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I

formed you in the womb, I knew you." Just
going to the fact that,

um, life does begin at conception. That's
very clear in scripture. The John the

Baptist argument's a great one. And then
you ended with that sort of the my body,

my choice that we hear nowadays. Oh, gosh.
Uh, with that going on, I think two areas

that I hear, and I was listening to some
debates this last week,

um, that

the

people that are pro-choice seem to have
that

the value of a child's life,

uh, changes based upon how it was
conceived. That said,

um- What do you mean? How should... Yeah.
How should Christians,

um, respond to their arguments of, "Well,
what about in the case of rape or incest?"

Yeah. Well, so I'd actually preached a
sermon on this a few weeks ago in

Deuteronomy, but

what... there's, there's a couple
problems. First of all, they're making a

category error, where two things can be
true. When someone says, "My body, my

choice," it... the, the, they're saying
something... they're saying it's a true,

it's a true thing in one sense. What
you're saying is, "I should have ownership

over my own body."

And what it is, it's, it's a,

it's a, it's a giant trick,

because when you say, "Nuh-uh," it...
they're basically trying to say something

that's irrelevant. Nobody's saying that
you can't do what you want with your own

body. Well, like, "Well, then I can have
an abortion." Like, see, that's the

problem. It's not just your body. There's
another body involved,

and that's where the issue... that's where
the category becomes irrelevant. So

you're, you're basically

obfuscating the issue by saying, "My body,
my choice." Um, it,

it... that's not the issue. The issue is
there's another body. There's another

human being that's not you. And so

a good way to say it is this. When someone
says, "At what, what age should women

have their, their rights?"

And they're like, "What do you mean?"
Like, "Well, what age should they have

their rights?" Like, "Women should have
their rights all the time." I'm like,

"Okay, so what age?

When they're little? How about in the
womb?"

Because, like, you're basically
infringing... you... their... your child

is not actually you. That's the whole key.
That child has a whole other DNA. It is,

is not you. And so the whole point of
having a child is that

it's not your body. So when you... if you
accept that first premise, "My body, my

choice," the argument isn't, "No, it's not
your choice." You're like, "Sure, but

we're not talking about your body." And
the irony is most of the people that are

pro-abortion are the same ones that told
you to mask up, which is so ironic, uh,

because, you know, I'm, I'm like, "Well,
my body, my choice." And they would say,

"No, you need to mask up during COVID
because it might affect other people." And

I'm like, irony of ironies that you're
pro-choice

and then... like, it just...

it's, it's, it's... it makes me so mad.
It's so evil. And, and I wanna say it's

dumb, but it's not dumb. It is just, like,
wicked. It's accusing people as you do...

I just can't get past it. I'm gonna lose
myself. What, what am I... what'd you ask

me?

Uh, yeah, there seems to be this
acknowledgement by them that, um, you

know, the way a child was con- conceived
changes the value of that child's life.

Yeah. So,

um, in cases of rape or incest- Yeah ...
they're like, "Well, then..." E- you know,

many, many Christians, well, purported
Christians that I saw online, this is one

of their biggest things. Like, "I'm
anti-abortion, except in the case of rape

or incest." Yeah. Let me just say this. If
that's your position right now,

you are in sin.

Period. And it's very simple.

It is people have value because they're
made in the image of God. And we tr- this

is part of the gospel, this is part of
everything. Your value is that you're

image bearer of God. And as, uh, Americans
even, we say that people have rights. Uh,

you-- So just like we say people have
inalienable rights given to them by the

creator, you have rights because you're
made in the image of God. Well, that

child,

regardless of rape or any other types or
incest or anything, is a person

made in the image of God. That's it. It
doesn't, doesn't say that you're,

you're... And if you wanna find some other
reason to give someone value, "Well, no,

how they're conceived matters." I'm like,
"Now you're kind of trying to find another

reason for their value." Or if you say,
"Well, they... What if they have a brain

problem and they're not gonna think well?"
You're like, "Okay, but you don't have

your value because you, you have cogni-
like, the best cognition or that you have

good decision-making or you have this."
Everyone has value. So,

like, you gotta remember,

th- they had a,

this ad back in, I don't know where it
was, you probably have the stats, where

they said they had no more abortion. I,
I'm sorry, no more, um, Down syndrome in

the country. Do you have that in there?

Uh, one of the Scandinavian countries had
a big thing where they, they celebrated

that they've gotten rid of Down syndrome,
but they didn't. They just ki- aborted

every Down syndrome baby.

And in France or something, they tried to
show an ad,

or s- I forget the details of it, you can
look it up, where

they had an ad where all these Down
syndrome adults were thanking their moms

-for not aborting them.
-Oh.

And they banned it in France or wherever.
I think it's France. They banned it

because it might be traumatic for people
that would be considering abortions.

-Oh.
-But, but I want you to go back to the

thought here.

When you look at someone... The Special
Olympics is a great place to start.

Remember, before Hitler put one Jew in an
oven, they got rid of every handicapped

ramp.

Iceland. Iceland, thank you. That's where
we did it. So it was in Iceland where they

got rid of... They, they celebrated no
abortions, and then th- they banned the

ad, I think it was in France. But,

but, um,

when you go back to this, like, n- every
handicapped r- ramp was, was left. 'Cause

the basic argument, when I was in, um, UC
Santa Barbara,

I did really well in this, um,

Napoleon Chagnon's, uh, Anthropology 2
class, and they said, "Hey..." It was a

giant class, and I just happened to, like,
get it, and so they asked me to be in

this, like, honors society. I'm like, "All
right, I'll go to this thing." So I show

up at this thing,

and it's bioethics. I'm, uh, not a
Christian. I just wanted to, you know, do,

do,

do my thing. And so we go to this class,
and the basic argument is if you go into a

society, there's only... There's a thing
called carrying capacity. You've heard me

talk about this. You say... So the basic
argument is, hey, in the rainforest or

whatever, this plot of land ha- can only
s- only has so many bananas and p- props,

which means the carrying capacity of that
land is so much. So once a population gets

more than the bananas, uh, they're gonna
either have... Because of evolution,

they're gonna have a famine or a war or
something to lower the capacity down to a

capacity where enough bananas are there to
feed them. That's like the, the... This

is a,

an anthropological argument that, by the
way, is not true. But the basic argument

is there's these limited resources, and
then evolution, they've personified, is

gonna limit the population to control. But
if you start with that premise, this was

Hitler's basic Malthusian eugenics, if you
look it up,

uh, was based on this idea. So Margaret
Sanger was a big fan of Hitler, and she

went into and put Planned Parenthood's
began by sh- her putting Planned

Parenthoods into Black neighborhoods to
basically scrape the uterine lining of

Black, uh, women that would come in
without telling them, by the way, to

essentially, uh, stop them from breeding.
And this was Margaret Sanger's thing. She

was a big fan of Hitler. It was eugenics
and Malthusian eugenics. But the basic

argument was this. If there's a limited
amount of resources and if evolution is

true, that people don't have value because
they're made in the image of God, they're

just w- you know, we've evolved, you
know, goo to you via the zoo, and God's

just a made-up thing, well, then every bit
of suffering you see is because we're, w-

you're, you're spending resources on weak
people that are ruining it for you,

right? Like, there's only so many bananas.
Why are you giving the bananas to weak

people that can't produce themselves? And
so you start to say, "Well, hey, this

person's mentally handicapped. This person
is over here. They're too old," let's

say, or, "They're too weak." And we start
to cull the herd, so to speak, and we

start to talk about different races, and
that's where they would blame everything

on the Jews.

All of this goes together.

So this eugenics and abortion, it all goes
together with this idea

that starts with the question you asked
about rape.

If the value of a human being... Uh, if
you're a Christian and you don't accept

this, at a certain point, you are
misunderstanding the gospel. And it might

be out of ignorance, but I-- this is cr-
spiritual warfare. You take every thought

captive to obey Christ. And if that's you
right now, you cannot say, "I, I just

disagree with what you said." You have no
choice. Take that thought captive to obey

Christ. If you are not having value 'cause
you're made in the image of Christ, or of

God,

then sin doesn't make sense, the gospel
doesn't make sense, Jesus doesn't make

sense. Th- none of it makes sense. Like,
you don't... This is, becomes a gospel

issue,

truly. So the, the basic idea is people
have value because they're image bearers.

The reason murder is wrong is that you
took somebody else that looked like God

and killed them. The reason sin is sin is
that someone that w- wears the image of

God

acted in a way that isn't God. And so the
very thing that gives value is why justice

and judgment happens, is why Christ had
to come.

And so doesn't matter how they got here.
And let's go back a step, Christian.

Look at how Jesus came in his line.

Ruth is in the line of Christ. Ruth is a
Moabite. The Moabites exist because Lot's

daughter

raped him,

and in order to have a child. And so th-
you have, in the line of Christ,

the Moabites that came from the incestuous
rape of Lot by his daughters, and that's

in the line of Christ. And so you're...
When you say, "Hey, I'm, I'm cool for

murder," most of the people don't realize
that how would Jesus make it?

You know what I'm saying? So... Or the
people that say, "Hey, we wanna have

abortions when it would be not cool 'cause
the quality of life wouldn't be great."

Well, here's,

you know, Mary saying that she's pregnant,
you know, and Joseph's gonna divorce her.

Like, you can go back to many, many
reasons. In today's

logic, uh, most folks would have argued
for the abortion of Jesus. I mean, that's

just...

So yeah, you can't... Rape and murder,
give me a break. And-

Rape and murder can be heinous and bad,
but you don't make a heinous and bad thing

better by committing another heinous and
bad thing, right? Like, the baby didn't do

anything.

The baby is another human made in the
image of God. And so...

All right, I've beat the dead horse. You
get it.

Yeah, I'm gonna keep, uh, just a little...
I'll take the dead horse, um, sprinkle

some magic fairy dust on him, have him
come back to life for a little bit-

-Oh, dear. Okay
-... and then we'll kill him again. But in,

in that realm, the value of, of the value
of life coming from the fact that we are

made in the image of God, that said, there
are many Christians as well as

non-Christians who say, "The church needs
to stay out of this. This is not a,

uh, a religious debate. This is a
political debate. Uh, we need to let

government decide when,

uh, i- if ab- abortion should be, uh,
legal or not."

Uh, what? Uh, uh, that's just not a
Christian. It's just either you're

super... I can't... Like, you keep getting
me d- Like, look,

I hate this.

I hate... The, the, this is the thing I
hate about the show right now. I'm sorry.

Just, just being honest. Like, what you're
telling me, my hot take is, you're not a

Christian or you're super dumb, but in
either case, you should shut your mouth.

That is just such a stupid statement. And
I'm like, I don't wanna go on the show and

constantly tell everyone they're stupid
because-

... but I, I can't help it. The, they're,
they're like, that's a, such a dumb take.

Don't... I don't know if that should be a
clip. I'm so nervous. Everyone's, they're

like, "Ah." But...

We were gonna add a stupid counter to all
the podcasts, but-

I can't... What am I supposed to say? The,
the, the... First of all, I mean, the

argument that the church should stay out
of it, based on what? Says who?

The church ought to do... Like, and that
the government should do it. Well, why

would you give the government the abi-
Like, the whole idea,

there is no such thing as s- there's no
neutral ideas. And so everyone's idea, uh,

has to say there's no neutrality. And so
the, the government, this goes back to

church and state, the government

is just a,

supposed to be bureaucrats. They don't
have a philosophy. And so when someone

says, "You should stay out of the debate,
let politicians decide or stay out of the

debate," I'm like, "Well, then I think you
should shut up." Like, based on what?

There's just a stupid argument. It's an
assertion based on nothing.

And again, this is how feminism works.
This is... The, the whole point is, is

radical feminism

is using abortion as a political issue.
Um,

a- and again, I keep saying Marxism, but,
like, it's that same picture of,

you know,

basically casting down an institution,
casting down the patriarchy, casting down

the oppressor, and abortion becomes a
scene of liberation from oppression. And

so that makes it a... They'll say it's a
political issue, but that issue is right

back in Genesis. We, we can be like God
without God when God is dead, essentially.

And so we... Like,

it's

a... If that's... If a Christian is saying
that, if you know a Christian saying

that, almost guarantee they're not a
Christian

or they're a Christian that doesn't read
the Bible and doesn't know...

I just, I don't know how you have a
relationship with Jesus and can make a

comment like that. That's all I'm saying.
I guess...

-Then you'll love this one.
-Oh, God.

Um, one, one argument was, "I don't think
Christians should impose their beliefs-

... about abortion on people who aren't
Christians."

That's a great thing. Um...

The, like, so we had... So the, I... You
know what's great about that? Uh, Bigby,

-that's how Bigby got saved.
-Yeah.

We were at this thing at work

and, uh, w- I don't know, there was a
Christmas party that was coming up and

everyone was gonna bring white elephant
gifts. I was the only Christian in the

group. And, uh, I was like, "Well, I'll
just bring some Bibles." And this big dude

turns around and says, "Don't you put
your beliefs on me." And I'm like, "Like

you're doing to me right now?" And he's
like...

-Uh... And then he got saved.
-Yeah.

And so when they say, "Don't... You
shouldn't put your beliefs on somebody,"

you're like, "Cool.

Like, so you want, you wanna put your
beliefs on me? Is that what you believe?"

You know?

Um, w- look, these...

The, the... I think everyone thinks that
sincerity and emotion... And this is kind

of that toxic empathy subject, but, like,

I think people mistake sincerity and
emotion for logical coherence.

-Mm-hmm.
-And

you could be sincerely wrong, and you
could think really strongly about

something and still be an idiot about it.
You c- it's... The Bible calls you a fool.

Um,

it's just a foolish statement. It's, it's
self-falsifying. Like, you know, it's like

when someone says, "There's no such thing
as absolute truth." Like, are you

absolutely sure about that? Like, it's
just-

-Mm-hmm.
-It's... Yeah, I just...

And I, I think that we need to be in a
place... I think people that say those

things need to be mocked a little bit.
Like, it's just not a serious statement.

And the, the fact that someone says it
boldly demonstrates

an unseriousness. So if a young person
says it, they need to be corrected. But I

don't think you entertain that kind of
logic. That's just... It's just,

there's an unreality to it. Like, it's
self-falsifying.

Yeah, this is one that just popped in my
head, not on my, not on my sheet. Before

we talked, we were always talking about,
uh, um, like terminology, and we do this

with,

um,

you know, gay partnerships or gay union.
Remember, you taught a, a sermon just on

how we... Like, gay marriage isn't a thing
because marriage is strictly between a

-man-
-Yeah

... and woman. That said,

I like what you said earlier on, that we
call it abortion, but it's baby murder.

Should

Christians... You know, there... I was
listening to a guy on... He was on Joe

Rogan, and just he came off so smart, but
just the dumb... I was... The, I was

raging. And 'cause he's like, "The word
abortion isn't even in the Bible." And

he's like, "Homosexuality isn't in the
Bible either." He's like, "It just says

man lying with men." And he's like, "We
don't know what that idiom means. How are

we supposed to know idioms?"

I was losing my mind. But do you think it
is something where... I, I ha- I make, and

this is my own conviction,

very cognizant about not saying gay
marriage.

Um, is, uh, is should abortion... Or is
that more like a shock value if I'm like,

-"Oh, do you believe in baby murder?"
-Yeah. Um, well, okay, so you gotta

understand, words-

-Words matter.
-They do matter. We, this... When we say a

lot of words, podcast behind it is a th-
thing we've been teaching over a long

time. But we have to remember,

all debate is a debate first and foremost
about words. I mean, again, all of the

reasons that you suffer and die is because
of words.

And you're like, "How does that make
sense?" I mean, in the garden, God said,

"You shouldn't eat of these things." God,
God's word spoke everything into

existence, and it was so. And then he says
to Adam, "Don't eat from this tree." And

then Eve looks at him and says, "But I
think

it looks good for food, and it looks good
to make one wise."

And she desired and took and then gave to
Adam. And so the, the big problem, the

fall and all the problems that came from
the fall, so it's just every disease,

death, everything you're suffering right
now is a battle about words. God's word is

what's so, and all of a sudden, man
decides, "Nuh-uh. My... God says it this

way, but I say it this way."

That's the-- That is literally all the
problems. And salvation comes when you

listen to God's word, which is what? The
gospel. God says these things, I'm gonna

believe what he says about these things.
I'm gonna believe his words over my

feelings. And these are... The, the issue
of words is huge. And then the Christian

problem is that, we've said this before,
but it's such a big thing to repeat.

Years ago, but with gay marriage and with
abortion, with all these things, people

start telling a story

and Christians would say, "Nuh-uh. Well,
that's not true. Technically, it's this."

And people was like, "Oh, well, like,
look, the words don't matter. We all get

it." And we sort of did that with gay
marriage. Like, "Oh, who, who cares what

it cau- what, um, what they're saying?"

You know, love is love, blah, blah, blah.
So Christians basically gave up. They're

just like, "Okay, well, yeah, we, we
understand. We all know what it means.

It's cool." But then when people took
political power, they're like, "Use the

right pronoun or else." In other words,
the other side really did care about words

all the time. Words do matter,

and it's the reason why... Remember, in
sort of 1984 and these places, the, the,

there's a reason why everyone wants to
reframe everything all the time, right? So

instead of calling someone a pedophile
anymore, they'll say a minor-attracted

person. Instead of calling someone an
illegal alien, they'll say an undocumented

person. Instead of saying that someone
committed suicide, they'll say he, uh, uh,

he, um, died by suicide. Notice that,
notice the, the, the framing of things is

trying to take out, like, ownership out of
it. We... The, the way we use words,

words are the thing that make you...

You will go to hell because you don't, you
haven't cried out to God. And, and, and,

you know, like, words matter and what you
say matters. And in these debates, I think

people think, "Oh, well, it's just
words." Uh,

so that, saying that means, yes, you can
use the word abortion because sometimes

you have to know that when you say child
sacrifice, child murder,

you're

be- you're saying something that's gonna
provoke.

-Mm-hmm.
-Um,

and so sometimes you don't need to
provoke. If, like, if you're in, having a

good faith conversation with someone who's
just genuinely interested,

you kind of, like, might just wanna have a
communication. But if someone's asking

you, yeah, I would define it that way.
Does that make sense? If someone says gay

marriage, I'm gonna say, "Well,
technically it's not real."

-Mm-hmm.
-Um, you just have to pick and choose.

Again, apologetics is learning that not
everything's a hammer, right? Sometimes

you're using a scalpel, so yeah.

Yeah, there's no, there, there's no sin
against God by saying gay marriage, you

-would say.
-Right, right, right. Yeah, but I mean,

yeah, just more strategically, there's
times when you need to just be calling

something what it is. And, and when you
accept someone else's terms, usually the

-debate's over.
-Right.

By the time you start arguing based on
terms they've defined, you've already

lost.

That, you know, like, so how long
should... You know, we're gonna debate

today the idea that someone is, um, raped,
uh, you know... Today, we're gonna talk

about how you raped everyone, Brett. And
you're like, "Raped everyone?" "Well,

yeah, when you said those words the other
day, you know, that's, uh, that... they

didn't want those, and so you technically
verbally raped them." And you're like,

"Verbally raped them?" And

the moment you accept the premise, you're
like, "No, I don't accept your premise.

That's absurd." Like, "Well, that's what a
verbal rapist would say." You're like,

"Oh my gosh." Like, the whole white
fragility book and the whole stuff like

that is the same, the same crap. It's
really just

a grownup version of I'm rubber and you're
glue. And k- I just...

It's crazy. But words really is where the
fight is, and the reframing of it matters.

And so I think when, when you,

when you say, "Hey, I believe in child
murder,"

or, "I don't believe in child murder,
except in cases of

rape and abortion, I believe in child
murder," it maybe makes it seem a little

more sense. So if you say that to a
Christian in nice faith and say, "Hey,

would you agree with this?"

Uh, maybe they might check themselves,
but-

-Before they wreck themselves.
-Before they wreck themselves.

It made me think of when we, when we, uh,
you call a pia- like, a pianist, you call

-them a lyricist, but then with rapper-
-You can't-

-... instead of calling them a rapist-
-You can't... Yeah, you, yeah, that's a

-good one
-... it should be a rapist.

-Yeah, he's a good rapist is not a good-
-I've contended for years that-

-... that's not a good one
-... rappers should be called rapists.

Henceforth, uh, this will happen. Yeah, so
I, uh, listen, this is a j- the, the

problem I'm having with this subject is
it's so much, so much online. I mean,

there's guys online, and they're out
provoking in the street. Like,

it's a subject where people wanna hold
their values privately. People have strong

feelings, and they'll say, "Oh, it's
complicated." I'm like,

that's the empathy thing. I kinda wanna
get to the Lindsey Clancy thing for a tiny

-bit. Do you have that one?
-I got one, I got one more question.

-Okay.
-This one had just come up a lot, and, um,

it kinda goes, again, not to how

a value based on conception, but almost

value based on intentionality. And so, uh,
is destroying, discarding, or

indefinitely freezing human embryos
morally different from abortion? This is

in the realm of we've talked about IVF on
this show-

-Yeah
-... before, and just so there is a, a

different intentionality behind it, but is
there... since the result is the same,

is it sinful just as much as an abortion
is?

Yeah, so I would go say the last
sermons...

When you hear this, it'll be two sermons.
Whenever, I know it's my time thing, but

just go back to the Deu- Deuteronomy
sermons, I think...

-I cannot get to when that they should go-
-They're all long. Just listen to all the

-Deuteronomies.
-Mm, they're all long. What do you mean?

They're just great. Um...

They're the best sermons on Deuteronomy
I've ever heard.

Yeah, that doesn't, that sounds like
you're qualifying this. Um, you know, if

you said they're just the best sermons you
ever heard, I'd, I'd, I'd receive that as

adulation, but now I'll say that's a
qualification. But let me go back. The

Deuteronomy sermons are really helpful
because they do a few things.

What Moses is doing is he's saying,
"Here's a line, and we should say

abortion's bad." Yes, but you just did
something really important. You said,

"Well, here are the circumstances."
Someone says, "Well, rape and murder." I'm

like, "Well, what am I doing?" I'm
saying, "Well, the line's still the line."

Okay. Um,

but intentionality, does that change it?
Meaning, what if someone doesn't know

they're pregnant and they do something and
then the baby dies? Well, that's not

abortion. Does it... So in other words,
there's different levels of understanding.

Like, it might be a tragedy or it might
be this. But with things like in vitro,

someone says, "Well, I wanna have a
child." And the problem is the,

the philosophy that many people who have
freezing eggs and holding is that, well,

now you have a bunch of conceived,

like, sperm and egg conceived, you have
essentially life

that's frozen. And I would say that's not
good. Like, r- right? So then what do you

do? Well, they're gonna eventually destroy
them, but meanwhile, it's just freezing.

It's not good. Now, if you did in vitro
where they just did one,

okay. Like, I would have... I, I don't, I
don't know how I'd be against that, right?

Some people say, "Oh, it's unnatural."
I'm like, "I don't... I think you're going

further than the Bible

there."

But that'd be so expensive to do just one
that most people don't do it. So that, but

then stop for a second. Now we're saying,
"Okay, so it's cheaper, so we'll just

kill a bunch of things because it's
cheaper and convenient." Well, it's also

more convenient to, like, just live with
your girlfriend, right?

Uh, there's a bunch of moral things that
are convenient, but that's not an

argument. So

I don't know. I think that answers it.

-Yeah.
-You know?

You can, you can go on about your Lindsey
Clancy thing.

Well, the, so the whole Lindsey Clancy
thing, the big issue right now,

there's a...

Like, if you looked at the... It's, it's
basically the Lindsey Clancy trial that

just happened

is essentially the O.J. trial for
feminism.

So the O.J. trial was essentially, at the
end of all the civil rights stuff, all the

end of all these things, there's this
argument of

things are going well, and finally you
have a man who's clearly guilty, Black man

who's clearly guilty, and the argument
is,

"Well, we need to be able to get away with
murder. We all, like, just let it go.

Like, you, you know, you're giving us
everything. Let us get away with murder."

And they did. And then he writes a book
and said, like, "Lindsey Clancy is the end

of feminism."

So you can't, you cannot create...
Everyone's like, "Oh." Now everyone's

like, "Shout your abortion, celebrate your
abortion." They're proud of their

abortion. I mean, it's just a militarized
picture. And we keep saying... And then

you see late-term abortion, and the
argument with late-term abortion is that

we say, "Hey, this is reprehensible,
right? This is a fully formed baby." And

they keep saying, "It's my choice, and I
can do it whenever." And what would we

say? We say, "Well, what's the difference
between a baby that's in the womb and then

five seconds later out of the womb?" I
mean, it's still the same thing. You're

saying... And they would argue, um, I
think Peter Sa- Sanger or,

oh, not Sanger, Singer, um,

the guy from Harvard,

he said that you should be able to kill
your kids up to two years old. Um, uh, I

forget his name.

-And so he would make this-
-Satan?

I know, Satan. But he would say this
argument, but it was like, just like back

with Namla you see this, and then this
becomes accepted. Well, then you look at

people talking about, like, the born alive
bills where they say, "Oh, don't

resuscitate," and stuff. I mean, this is
cruelty, but we've so normalized it. And

we have normalized an entire political
class of women who have so entrenched

themselves in this idea that abortion is
the key element of their freedom and their

feminist movement.

It's no surprise now that now you have a
woman who actually strangled her children

and the, uh, like, all the jurors wanted
to let, like, acquit her. Let, like, say

she's not guilty because she was suffering
with postpartum psychosis, and they're

like, "Well, psychosis is real." And I'm
like, "Yeah, I, I get psychosis is real.

She's still guilty for a crime." Like,
yes, I, you can relate with her, and the

big problem is that so many people have
said,

"Well, I relate with this, and I relate
with that." And then I, the, my favorite

is people will say, "Well, there's a lot
of men that kill children." And I'm like,

"Right, and how many of us have thrown
rallies to show how much we love that?"

Every guy would be... I'd wanna murder any
per- or put to death everybody that's

killed a child too. But you have all these
women celebrating Lindsey Clancy. She has

a fan club.

And so you just... She is the final boss,
essentially, of feminism, where we finally

have a culture that's just admitted that
we've basically trained generations of

women to

be okay with child sacrifice to the point
where here's a woman who just murdered her

kids, and they're like, "Yeah.

Yeah, we're for that."

And the people are for that. And to the
point where this is what's crazy. So the

one juror that said, stuck the line and
said, "No, she's still guilty." And these

women, when you listen to the interviews,
you're like,

"We're doomed as a country when you hear
this." You know, you're like, "Oh my

goodness."

The one juror that said, "No, she's still
guilty," they're all like, the lot of

left-wing outlets were trying to mock the
guy, so they finally dox him. They say,

"Oh, here's who he is."

And they find out that he was the only
Black guy on the jury, and they were

saying all this smack, and all of a sudden
like, "Oh."

Uh, so now you have a scenario where you
have, like, 11 white women and, like,

three guys that are just, like, haranguing
and dissing this one Black guy who stood

the line. And so now their narrative's
like, "Well, which one in the

intersectionality should we be mad at? We
don't know." But then it gets worse.

So then someone doxes him, and they find
out that he apparently had g- been accused

of

domestic abuse, uh, where he had e-
essentially, I guess, tried to strangle

his wife or something. And he... I don't
know the story.

Some de- you look up the details. But he
was exhon- I don't know if he was

exonerated or didn't, he wasn't charged or
whatever, but they're like, "Man, this

guy's try- almost strangled his wife. He
shouldn't be on the jury." I'm like,

"You're trying to let a woman go who
strang..." Like, the, just the s-

calling evil good, good evil, the

upside down, down is up. It's like the,
the theater of the absurd. Francis

Schaeffer talks about it. Like, the
Lindsey Clancy trial

is a picture of our culture right now and
the rot in our culture from radical

feminism, third wave, fourth wave, a
millionth wave of radical feminism has...

It's a, it's a rot. And it starts with
basically saying,

you know, "We've gotta free ourselves from
all of the patriarchy. We're gonna free

ourselves from all the thing." And so now
for the first time, just let's go back a

second. For the first time in history,
women are doing better than men ever

before. When, when you actually count for
actual hours, hours worked, women make

more than men. When you account for
education right now, more women are

getting higher, get higher education than
men. The job force, more jobs added, women

are getting those jobs.

With all the things that feminism asked
for, they have. And women are more

anxious, more unhappy,

more unable, more victimized, and
narcissistic in terms of the things that

might... Like, this,

you know, oh, this, the, these people are
against their kids, and I'm like, just the

narcissism and the stuff. Like, it's
hard. Everyone has hardship.

And

then now you have this point where this
lady murders stuff, and they're like,

"Yeah, we need to... She has it too hard.
She's the victim."

Uh, you're just like,

we can't... That, that can't go forward.
This is the end of a line. I mean, I, I'm,

I don't sound very articulate with this.
There's so many people who have talked

about it. I'm just...

The abortion issue

-is the Lindsey Clancy issue.
-Mm-hmm.

And what's interesting is that people, you
say to yourself, "That's crazy to me

that people would have, be a fan of her
and think she's, you know, great." And

they say, "I don't think she's great
'cause she murdered her kids." I'm like,

"Right, but you think she's great and she
just had to do it, or she, she couldn't

help herself." Well, however you wanna say
it, you're still celebrating the woman

as,

you know, your next, um, victim, and

this is what abortion does. It's led to
this moment where, as a culture, we, we,

because we've lost the ability to even see
abortion as wicked-

We've now lost the ability to see a woman
who actually strangled one child, had to

s- chase another child down to strangle
them,

and we're not... we're unable to say that
she's guilty?

I mean, the, even the arg- argument of
insanity as a, as a defense is, like,

absurd, but I don't wanna get down that
road. Who cares if she's insane? You

still, she's still guilty,

and any just society, she should have the
death penalty, period.

And you're like, "Oh, well, she couldn't
help..." I, I, I get it, but, you know,

your dog couldn't help biting someone, you
still put him down. I mean, that's...

You're like, "No, I wouldn't." I'm like,
"Okay, whatever." I mean, just like this

is, this is biblical. It's basic. Right
after Noah gets off the ark, first thing

God, he says, "Put the manslayer to
death."

You know? Why? Because that's pro-life.
Why? Because he killed someone made in the

image of God.

And so she took three image bearers

that she had responsibility for, that God
says, "Hey, these are your disciples.

These are your people." And society says,
"No, no, you're an independent agent.

These people are..." You know, and then
she murdered them. And now

she tries to claim insanity, but now she
wants to get off. Like, insane people

don't wanna... Like, there's just...

It's wicked. It's the lowest thing I've
seen in our society for a long time, and

it's, uh, you can't... If you're gonna
talk about abortion, Lindsey Clancy is the

picture of abortion ideology taken to its
final conclusion.

-Two more questions. With it being such a-
-Sorry to be so heavy, but-

No, it- ... that's good. With it being
such a heavy topic, uh-

-Yeah
-...

um, and so controversial in our culture,
do you think... You know, I'm from

the Midwest. A l- a lot of union workers.

-Yeah.
-Um, my church growing up was filled with

u- filled with union workers who had giant
Democrat stickers on their car, vote blue

because

they're concerned with their pensions,
they're concerned with their 401ks, but

they were always voting for someone, for
the most part, who was

-pro-abortion.
-Yeah.

Do you think that this topic is a big
enough one

where a Christian,

at, at best, would have to reject it or
say, like, "Is this enough to-"

-Yeah.
-"... every- everything we lo- you love

about this, you know, this candidate is
great, except

-that they're very pro-abortion."
-Yeah.

Like, would you not vote for that kind of
person?

Yeah. Well, I don't... I think it'd be
too... Yeah.

-Is it a deal breaker, I guess?
-It should be, for the most part, a deal

breaker. I mean, you gotta be careful
because sometimes

someone might say they're pro-life, but
they're not. Some people are liars. Um,

but, but barring, like, saying two
candidates, one's pro-life, one's

pro-choice, that should be like,

"Hey, this guy's great. He's gonna give me
a m- a raise, but he doesn't wanna murder

babies?" Like

, should be, should be basic. But let me
just say this too, going back to Romans

sort of 13 and, and the idea here,

y- we are not under a king. You, when you
vote for something, you're acting as a

-ruler in some sense-
-Mm-hmm

... and you're accountable for that. And
so when you vote for people constantly

that have policies that are like this and
you know what they are, uh, I think

there's some culpability there. And so,

um,

I mean, just, like, watching all the
people that wanna have adoptions, the

number is, and it's interesting, the
number of families wanting to adopt

almost, this was years ago, but almost
exactly matched the amount of, uh, babies

-aborted.
-Wow.

It's, it's...

Like, it's enough to make your... And, and
just people used to talk about

overpopulation. They're so... And now
we're like, "Oh, we're underpopulated.

That's why we're trying to bring in
illegal immigrants." Like, it's just,

w- it's, everyone's been fed the psyops on
this last, like, 30 years, I mean, on

people, is just...

We've just bought so many lies, and it's
just really bad. I mean,

um,

people unfulfilled, this and that, and
you're only gonna be fulfilled by your

job, and you're like, "Uh." And then
people that hear all this, they have such

strong feelings,

but I'm like, "I just don't, I don't
care." Like, this is one of those ti- this

is one of those topics, like, if you're
not gonna post something that's

entertaining or fun, then just don't, just
shut up. Like, don't post. Like, you have

nothing to say. You're not welcome. I
don't wanna hear about it. I just don't

wanna hear it. I just think it, you're
like... I have no respect for you. It's

just, it's wicked and it's evil, and we
need to be able to say things are wicked

-and evil. And I just-
-Yeah.

I'm just so tired of having to tiptoe
around stuff like that. Like, I'm not

going out,

you know, calling people bad names, but,
like, here we're on a show talking about a

subject. Like, what subject can we say,
"Hey, you know, like, raping people is

wicked and wrong." People are like,
"Actually..." It's like,

no, that's, there's like...

We, we should be able to call evil, and
it's, and y- I'm talking tonight, when

you'll hear it, about the wrath of God.

We're supposed to feel indignation

about this. We're supposed to feel
offended, not like...

We, we should not adopt empathy

towards the murderer in those moments.
Yes, I recognize it's a person. Yes, they

might have been going through... Yes, they
might have... But, like, the thing they

did should offend us.

And especially

the womb

should be the safest place for a human
being.

-Mm-hmm.
-And right now in America, it's one of the

most dangerous places you can be.

That's gonna segue into my last question
that I had because you mentioned, yeah,

the wrath of God, the indignation, just
people are extremely passionate about this

topic, as they should be.

Uh, that said, there's,

you know, we've been chastised as a church
because we're not passionate enough.

-Oh, gosh.
-And so

-you led yourself right into this.
-Yeah.

Um, so yeah, how does a church...

Like, what should the church's involvement
be, approach be

-with, uh, the-
-Yeah

... anti-abortion and, and pro-life
people? Because

w- we, like I said, we, we've had a group
come in,

and they wanted us to go on their agenda
about the pro-life agenda. We didn't do it

because we're saying we wanna make
disciples-

-Well, they're abolitionists
-... and they get angry.

Yeah. The, basically, there's a hum- bunch
of groups that are into like, "Yeah, you

wanna go protest and stand as a..." My
whole point is,

all political movements that you do in the
name of Christ are fine. So, like, I

wanna correct this because we did the
Christian, Christian nationalism episode.

I'm not saying that Christians
shouldn't... I'm, I'm fully... I think

fully informed Christians should be
involved at every level of the political

process, absolutely, which is their right,
and it's, and it's good for our country.

What I'm saying is, that mandate to do
those things is not the gospel.

And that distinction we have to protect at
every turn. So in other words,

stopping abortion is not the gospel.
Improving society in any capacity is not

the gospel. Getting rid of idolatry is not
the gospel. Bringing clean water is not

the gospel. The gospel is the work of
Christ to take the place of sinners who

put their faith in him, the life, death,
burial, resurrection, and visible sighting

of the risen Christ. That is the gospel.
And that the implications of the gospel

might lead to certain ways we think and
act. And so when someone says... So one of

the arguments is, "Well-

You know, you're not, you know, you're not
doing enough about abortion. I'm like,

first of all, we've funded money abortion,
you know, clinics. We have pe- we're

sending our people to lots of these places
all the time. But the last part is, as a

pastor,

the, the making disciples is, again, how
Paul changed Ephesus. Again, the idol

makers went out of business because Paul
made disciples. They sold their books of

magic because they learned about Christ.
And so what happened is they, this is the

problem that people have, is they need
Jesus. And when they have Jesus, what

happens?

Okay, now all of a sudden it changes their
life. They start to think a different

way. So, you know, the big reason that
abortion is so big in this country and

that Christians

are so vague about the issue is that so
many churches are so vague in their

discipleship.

And so the issue doesn't start outside of
abortion clinic. It starts with our dumb

youth groups having people lick peanut
butter off two sides of the glass instead

of teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and
how it ma- matters. It starts back where

parents can't articulate basic logical
things that the Bible says about calling

evil good and good evil. Like, parents
need to be able to articulate these basic

things. But we keep going to churches that
are telling us, "You can live your best

life now," and wonder why people don't
know how to answer big, basic problems of

abortion. And then someone else comes in
and says, "Hey, no, you need to go out

there and protest." I'm like, "What if you
started by preaching the gospel and

actually making disciples from the actual
word of God?"

Full stop.

Amen. Matt, thanks for talking about this
topic with us. Uh, if you have a question,

again, go to louderwordspodcast.com.
Click on the Ask a Question button. If you

want

us to engage more questions about abortion
or anything that Matt said, please go

there. Uh, we're gonna wrap this episode
right now, and you're gonna enjoy, next

week you'll enjoy a great half-hour
episode that's a Q&A. Uh, we are in a time

crunch, so we gotta wrap it. I can't do,
I can't

watch you filming your mean TikToks.

-Um, I'm not-
-Maybe we should just do a half hour of

-that.
-I'm not even gonna ask you about does it

-slap?
-Why don't you do a half hour of mean

-TikToks?
-Just mean TikToks. Actually, that'd be

hilarious. It'd just be you st- the stupid
counter would be through the roof.

I just, I don't, I hate using the word.
Sorry. I'm sorry. I don't, I can't do it.

And, and like, listen, if you're a person,
like I said, that's had an abortion,

uh, again, y- um, we're not your enemy.
You know? We, we wanna help you and we

wanna talk to you. And if you're
considering it, please go to, uh, reach

out to the True Choice Pregnancy Center.
Reach out to College Area Pregnancy

Services. Um, there's hope for you. There,
like, you, you'll, we will help you, you

know? But

don't... There's no situation where

having an abortion is the, is the right
choice. And, and they say, "Well, what

about the life of the parent?" Well,
that's almost never the case. But if it is

the case, everyone already agrees you
save the life of the parent, so that's not

the issue. But

outside of that, um, if you're pregnant,
like, there's an eternal soul and that's,

you're gonna...

You know, go to these places, reach out to
somebody, but don't, don't go to Planned

-Parenthood.
-Mm-hmm.

It is a, it is a, it is a factory of
death.

-That's all I got.
-I guess one final question. Does the blood

-of the cross cover the sin of abortion?
-Yes. The blood of the cross covers

-everything.
-Amen.

Thanks, Matt. Appreciate it. Shout-outs to
Shaun, see the comments. We'll see you

next week for the shortest episode we've
ever had, uh, answering your questions.

That one will be fully dedicated to all
the questions that you've sent in. We'll

see how far we get, and we'll see you
there next Monday.

-Hey, Matt, you know what really slaps?
-What?

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