A Lot of Words

Well, first one was, what happens
immediately after we die?

You go to be in the presence of the Lord.
And I think that for the Christian, heaven

-isn't the ultimate prize.
-There are people getting married in

-heaven.
-Well, Jesus says no.

-Will we know our spouse in heaven?
-Yeah. You, of course you will. You don't

-have amnesia when you get to heaven.
-Will our pets be in heaven, and will they

-recognize us?
-Yeah. Um-

What's up? Welcome back to the show. I am
Brett Schoeneick. Joining me, as always,

is Pastor Matt Smith, senior pastor of
Barabbas Road Church. This is the A Lot of

Words Podcast. And on this show, we are
answering the questions that you, the

listeners, actually ask. If you have a
question that you want answered on the

show, go to alotofwordspodcast.com, click
on the ask a question button, the big blue

button, and we will answer your question
on the show, or we'll turn it into an

entire episode, which is what we have this
week. This was, this whole episode was

due to someone having several questions
about heaven, so this week we're talking

about heaven. You can tell by the title on
the top of this video.

I like that you just started off and told
me what the title is right at the start of

-the video.
-Exactly.

-Great.
-Yeah. Matt, uh-

-I feel like that intro was different.
-It was. It was a little different.

-I don't know if I liked it, though.
-I'm trying to change it up.

You seemed a little more chill.

Yeah. I am chill. Well, we just surfed. We
just had a hurricane session.

-Mm-hmm.
-We surfed. Well, you paddled a lot. I

-surfed.
-I surfed terribly today.

-Uh-
-I am absolutely shacked right now. I am so

sore.

I surf a longboard. You surf, like, this
tiny little... No, you surf a board a size

-that a grandpa shouldn't surf.
-No, I'm, it's fine. I just, it was...

Yeah, whatever. It was like, normally we
have great days. Today wasn't my great

-day.
-Yeah.

It's okay. It was, it was an okay day. It
was fun.

-But the surf is incredible. It's big.
-But your energy level, you need some more

-coffee.
-I h- I have this decaf right here.

No, decaf doesn't... Oh my goodness.
You're-

There's a little... There's... You, you,
you have to get a little something.

-Oh, dear.
-If you drink 20 decafs.

That's, that's the equivalent of trying to
get drunk on O'Doul's.

-Yeah.
-Yeah, it's great. All right.

I don't know why I want to say this.
Remember that...

The o- the only Beavis and Butt-Head I
could actually remember

is when they are sitting on a curb
outside, and they just thought they bought

beer,

and this cop comes up to them to bust
them. And he looks, he's like, he's like,

"This is non-alcoholic beer." He goes,
"You're not drunk. You're just stupid."

It's the only clip. And I probably watched
hours of it as a kid. Um, I don't know.

-That's great.
-And they're trying to bring it back,

aren't they?

-I just like this SNL episode-
-The SNL skit was incredible

... when they had, what's his name? Beavis
and Butt-Head? That was great.

Yeah, he's got a big blonde pompadour.

-Yes. Well-
-Matt, you, you were recently on a little

-trip. How was that?
-I went on a little trip. It was great. And

then, um, you know, I'll tell you, one of
my big pet peeves right now-

...

-is if you-
-Good, good segue.

If you go on a trip, and let's say you go
to some place, it's a resort, a nice

hotel, whatever,

and they always say, "We have... It's a no
smoking facility." And normal, like, I'll

call them, like, smoking civilians,
right? Because I'm a cigar guy. I like

cigars. I probably, I smoke a cigar every
day. It's a part of my life,

-um, and it's good for you. Um-
-Show the, show the people your trinket.

-Well, let me finish my story first.
-Okay.

And then, so when you go to these places,

they always say there's no smoking. And
then

depending on the hotel you're at,

the, the logic changes. So it's like as if
it's illegal, like you're doing something

crazy. Yes, you're not supposed to smoke
in the room. Yes, you're not supposed to

smoke outside. But they'll usually have a
section. Well, this place, they're like,

they made it seem like there was these
small so- smoking sections, but we found,

like, a path, like a walking path, which
is, like, in the main... It's the main

-part of the hotel.
-Mm-hmm.

And there's ashtrays the whole way. It
says, "This smoking area." And you realize

the entire place was sm- there's... It
was really only places that weren't

smoking. And so you're just like... Well,
if you ask, just out of curiosity, I would

ask, "Hey, where's a good smoking spot?"
And they'd all say, "Oh, there's no

smoking here." I'm like, "Yes, there is.
It's right outside." And like, "Oh.

Oh, yeah." And I don't know why it made me
so mad that everyone's... I just feel

like I said the other week, like, the ali-
the amount of America

that we have lost is totally requisite
with the amount of places that you can't

smoke.

-I just feel like, like I said-
-There's a Sei- there's a Seinfeld episode.

Remember when Kramer was trying... He got
into cigar smoking?

-Yes.
-And he started having-

-He got so old and-
-He made a cigar lounge in his house.

Oh, yeah. And he got the Cubans, and they
were the, the immigrants, but they, he

found out they were actually fake Cubans.
They looked-

So it shows you that even 25 years ago
this was an issue.

No, but the issue is that... I mean, I
just... I, I get it. I think that no pe-

people don't wanna smell smoke when they
go places. I get that. But now instead,

what? We're gonna smell your patchouli or
your dumb marijuana or your dumb-

-Yeah.
-I just think that when you're outdoors, it

shouldn't be... And you know what's
funny? Like, in Coronado, they don't,

they're not gonna enforce anything. Like,
the, the guy that owns the cigar shop is

one of the cops. But anyways, I did, I did
k- find a cool lighter. I've decided I'm

not stressed to show cool things that I
like. No one cares. The people that do

care,

care. But this company that I really like
called Last Manor, which is the most

pretentious, fun, awesome stuff, they make
two different kinds of lighters. And I

found this thing, it's called the Douglas
Field S lighter, which used to be a World

War I type lighter. They reconstituted,
worked it out, made in Japan. Phenomenal.

And it's got these cool little trinkets
where if you open it up,

and this is the inside. That's where you
fill it with lighter fluid. And when you

open it up, I don't know if you can see,

this little cap you can fill with more,
and it goes in here. So this is totally

sealed, so it doesn't evaporate, which is
amazing.

And it goes in the main section, and right
next to it,

this little tiny, this, this tube has
flint in it, and this seals. So I could...

This go underwater. You could go
underwater. Like, if I was in, like, a

battle and I had to come out, I could come
underwater, and I have my buck knife. The

two things every man should have on him
is

fire and knife and wife.

-And wife.
-But, you know, you have two things you

-need, just so, like, they're classic-
-Yeah

... man items. And then when you light it,
you just have to, like, undo the lock

because it keeps, that's what keeps it
sealed. And you just... And it's

windproof, and just...

Now, this isn't really good for cigars
because it's lighter fluid, but if you let

it burn off, like, in an outdoor and
setting,

and it's awesome. So I like this company.
I'm a fan. And-

I like that you could, uh... It's good for
underwater cigar smoking, it sounds like.

Yeah. Well, you know, it's not illegal in

most places underwater. Um,

-I'm just kidding. But anyways-
-Well, that, yeah, that's great. That's a

great product, which, uh, speaking of
great-

-The Douglas Field S lighter.
-And speaking of great products-

-Last Manor
-... if you wanna take your Bible study to

-the next level-
-Yes

... another great product that sponsors
this show-

-That actually sponsor us, yes.
-Yeah, this lighter doesn't sponsor us,

-and-
-But they should.

-They should.
-I would love that.

Yeah. There's so many fire puns we could
have.

If you have some- if you end up going out
and you end up looking at that lighter,

-it's very expensive-
-Yeah

... and you go to get that, tell them that
you came from us somehow.

-I would do it just for the fire pun.
-Can you... Wait, wait. Can you... Sean,

can you guys, like, send them an email? Be
like, "Hey, we featured you." They, they

-don't know that we're a-
-Sean, Sean says-

-We're, we're, we're getting pretty big.
-Sean says-

-We have 2,000 subscribers on YouTube.
-Sean C's doing enough. Don't make Sean C

-do more things.
-Sean C, get... Yeah, get, get, get, uh,

-get our sponsorship with Last Manor.
-.

Oh, yeah, Brad. Brad, can you take care of
this now?

Yeah, Brad. Yeah, big Brad. Um, get this
lighter-

Saddleback Leather, Last Manor. Let's see
what else we want. Um, oh, Fairlife

-protein shakes.
-Our boots.

-What else can we do?
-Our boots.

-Yeah, Iron Rangers.
-Iron Ranger boots. Uh-

-Crossway.
-But this, this show is sponsored by Logos

Bible Software. You can click on the link
below, get a 60-day free trial to Logos

Bible Software.

It is pricey, so this link is awesome. I
think-

-The caffeine kicked in.
-You know who... You know what happened

is... Well, the mic's further away from
me. Uh, you sound so good in my

-headphones, and now I sound distant.
-Yeah.

-Yeah, you have this deep, buttery voice.
-Mm.

Um, I'm sure Sean C is correcting this. In
my ears, I sound like I'm yelling at you

from a different room,

-but I'm okay with that.
-No, it's great.

No, Trace texted me. He preached this last
weekend, and he texted me, like,

Saturday. He said, "Hey, do you have any
discounts for Logos?" I was like, "I have

a 60-day free trial." And, uh, he used it
in preparing for his sermon.

-Wow.
-Yeah, so there you go.

-That's great.
-It was awesome. Um, so yeah, go to Logos,

-click on the link-
-That's like, it's like s-

...

and we'll go from there. I do wanna get to
some questions.

Oh, yeah. Get to it, get to it.

I think we finally got a, like, stump the
pastor question. I figured most of the

-questions that we would get-
-I hate stump the... I wonder .

I love stump the pastors. Well, in this
one, I was looking at it seconds ago. I'm

sorry, Sean C, I'm messing with the audio
and the, where the mic is at and all these

different things.

Um,

I, I have...

-I, I have actually come-
-I'm easy to be stumped.

I have co- I've come across this question
before.

So let me... It's from, uh, Toodles McGee.

Wait, wait, pause. Uh, last week, we...
Just, I just reminded myself, last time we

did it, I told everyone to watch the

thing I did on omnipotence

for our broadcast. If you did, put it in
the comments. I wanna know that you

watched it. Did you watch it?

-No.
-Hmm, never mind. How can I ask anyone else

-to do it?
-I don't watch anything you do.

Uh, you didn't even hear... I, like,
worked this so hard. And then today, we're

doing it on justice, or we'll see it,
that'll be last week.

Well, what's funny is my... I usually... I
always say Tuesday morning, or Tuesday

night is best served Wednesday morning.
And so my Wednesday morning filled up

'cause I, I... After six o'clock, I'm d-
my brain's done learning.

And, uh,

you, you hate everything I'm saying right
now. It's just-

-What? It is... I'm like, what if I threw-
-If we ever went to... If we ever had a

night service at church, I would just be
asleep in the back.

-We need counseling.
-But, uh, I... The, the joke was, it was

Labor Day yesterday and our podcast comes
out Monday, so that every Monday this show

will come out and we've been, I think...
I don't know if we've missed a Monday

-since we started last February.
-We're very faithful.

Yes. The one thing we are good at is
plotting. We will just-

-Yes
-... keep plotting till we're dead. And

everyone doubts us,

-and here we are-
-Oh, yeah

-... 20 years later.
-Matthew told us it's super hard to have

-us... I'm like, "We're still going."
-I know. Yeah.

-Come on, Matthew.
-I asked... I brought that up on the

FaceTime with him.

Uh, shout out Matthew in New Zealand.
What's up? But

what was I, what was I talking about?

Plotting, Facebook, you did it.

-You're trying to get-
-Stumps the pastor. No, you were talking

-about nighttime sermons.
-Nighttime sermons. But I was like, "Oh,

this, this comes out Monday morning, but
it's Labor Day." And I know all of you are

just, like, at your jobs listening to us,
not doing your job, or you're

on your way to your job and that is where
you're listening, and then it was just,

-like, the lowest number.
-Really?

-Yeah, and then today it's just ba-boom.
-Oh, really?

-Everyone's logged for them, yes.
-Oh, okay.

Because what else are you gonna do at
work? You're not gonna work.

-Hmm.
-I mean, remote work has just ruined work.

-That's great.
-But-

I, I don't know those numbers, so that's
great.

-Um-
-All right, so we're talking about

questions. You got... You're gonna stump
me?

I have a question. Yeah, again, if you
have a question-

-I'm easy to stump
-... go to louderwordspodcast.com, click on

the ask a question button, the big blue
button, submit your questions. This one

comes from Toodles McGee-

... at thanks, at thanks.com, and the
subject is good luck.

-Oh, dear.
-You'll need your Bible. If Jesus is

referring to Zechariah, son of Jeho-
Jehoiada in 2 Chronicles 24, why does

Matthew 23:35 call him the son of Barachi?

Uh, and if he's referring instead to
Zechariah, son of Barachi from Zechariah

1:1, what evidence do we have that
Zechariah was murdered between the

sanctuary and the altar? How does your
view account for both details without

asserting an error in the text?

Um,

oh, gosh. All right. Well, couple ti-
things. Let's go back. What's the passage?

-I don't even know.
-Uh, so the... He's referring to Matthew

-23:35.
-All right, let's look at that really

-quick.
-Yeah, why don't you read that quick?

Matthew 23:35. Is this, is this... Uh, are
you not entertained?

-Yeah.
-All right, so this is the type of

question... But here, let me explain
something. The... So

if you're ever in a public environment,
someone asks this question, and I'm not

saying this person did it, but there's an
aspect of, like,

not, not this question, I wanna be very
clear, but there's, like, there could be

almost not good faith in the asking of it
because it's so obscure.

It's like saying, you know... So you're
not really...

The broader question is, what do you do
with apparent contradictions?

-Mm-hmm.
-But they, they wanna be able... Here's a

-specific one, right?
-So-

-So-
-Yeah. The- this has... I used to watch a

lot of debates on lower textual criticism.

-Mm-hmm.
-And this, this comes up a decent amount.

-Okay.
-Um, and so yeah-

-Where are we looking now?
-... I think it was, I think it was a good

-faith question.
-Um, what verse is it?

-23:35.
-23:35? Okay.

Um...

Could you read it for us, the immediate
context?

Okay, 34. "There- therefore I send you
prophets." Jesus speaking. This is in the

woe section.

Um, "Therefore I send you prophets and
wise men and scribes, some of whom you

will kill and crucify, and some you will
flog in your synagogues and persecute from

town to town, so that on you

may come all the righteous blood shed on
earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to

the blood of Zechariah, the son of
Barachi, whom you murdered between the

sanctuary and the altar." Now,

what the, uh...

Some manuscripts

do omit the reference to the son of
Barachi.

-Yeah, Luke does as well. Uh, the-
-But no, but, like, literally that... In

other words, the...

That first you have a manuscript issue.
But what's the... So now what's the issue

-now? They're saying that that's not true?
-Yeah. Well, they're, they would argue

that-

... if it's referencing Zechariah 1:1,
that it's not, like, the complete Old

-Testament.
-Mm-hmm.

So they say like, oh, Jesus is saying from
the blood of...

from Genesis to,

um, the entirety of... 'Cause 2 Chronicles
is the end of the Jewish

Bible. Like, he's saying the entire,

all of this in the, in the Jewish
scripture, that's what he's referencing.

-So then-
-Yeah

... Christians extrapolate th- that to
say, "Well, it's all of the canon from

-Genesis to Revelation."
-Well-

So he's saying if, if Jesus was talking
about, um, 2 Chronicles 24,

that Zechariah is, um,

Jeho- Jehoiada, not Berechiah.

-Okay.
-But he's talking about... But then in 2

Chronicles 24, he was killed

in the sanctuary. So they're saying did
Jesus... Basically, their argument is

always like, Jesus said the wrong
Zechariah, and so he... like, basically

now we can throw everything out that he
said.

Oh, that's stupid. Um, it's st- it's a
stupid argument. I'll, I'll say this. My

first thing just having not... I lo- have
not looked into that at all, one, one

whit. So we're... what's the other verse?
2 Chronicles what?

-Uh, 2 Chronicles 24.
-Oh my goodness. All right. So I'm pretty

good usually at knowing stuff. This one's
like...

I don't know it. Where are we at?

What's the verse there?

-I don't know.
-Well, then...

-Okay.
-You have to read it.

All right, really quick. Give me one
second.

-Yep.
-Joash assassinated.

All right.

All right. Um...

All right, so here's what I would say. I,
I... Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, th-

this isn't one of those...

Oh, my... I, like, I have no... there's no
part of me that's stressed by that.

Like, if someone asks that question, I'm
like,

this happens a lot with even when they
reference, uh, Jeremiah and it's actually

talking about Isaiah, for example, or
different things. It's not so much that

they're making a mistake, but there's,
like, a way of viewing, like, sort of a

canon of things and saying stuff. And I
th- the statement that Jesus is making,

just off the top,

is more of an idiomatic statement. It's
like saying, you know, the blood from A to

-Z.
-Yeah.

From beginning to end, from alpha omega.
And it, it's like, for example, there's

another scene where he says, you know, "A
mustard seed, which is the smallest of all

seeds." And people are like, "Well,
technically a mustard seed isn't the

smallest of all seeds." I'm like, "Well,
okay, look,

you gotta remember he's talking to people,
and in their mind, this is the smallest

of all seeds."

You know, there's a, a way we get sort of
pedantic here. Um,

I don't think that this is one of those

situations where we'd go into it. I mean,
if you look into ChatGPT, I guarantee you

it'll give you a great answer. Have you
tried that yet?

I haven't tried ChatGPT, but I, I, again,
I've listened... I've seen videos of this.

Usually, the, the, the Christian
scholars, the biblical scholars, they'll

say

the most plausible response. But they do
say it is a s- it, it's like a, it's a-

-Sure
-... it's a troubled text.

-Yeah.
-Like, that we, we tru- we truly do not

know. But what they mostly side with

is that, um,

um,

in

Zechariah, son of Jehoiada, basically,
like, that Berech... he was probably the

grandfather,

and that Berechiah could have been his
father. But, uh, Jewish scripture, a lot

-of times they'll-
-Oh, yeah

-... skip a generat- 'cause they'll-
-They do that all the time.

Exactly. They'll go to the most popular
person and then say that. So, like-

-Yeah, they do that all the time.
-All the-

I mean, even calling Jesus the son of
David.

-Exactly, yep.
-I mean, isn't-

-Yep.
-Yeah, so that's... th- but that's what I'm

trying to say. That's very...

this isn't like a... when someone says
it's a troubling text, it's like w- you...

when you put,

uh, on... and sometimes they'll mis...
they'll quote something and it'll be

-different, right?
-Mm-hmm.

So sometimes the New Testament authors
will quote the Old Testament and it won't

look the same.

Um, even Moses himself quoting in
Deuteronomy, when he quotes h- his own

words,

um, from Exodus, let's say, or he'll
change it somewhat.

And so you gotta remember a couple things.
First of all, th- this is a record of

their verbal thing. And so we have a, in
our view, a reference sort of culture

based on acad-

academia where we're copying and pasting
and even think... they might quote things

in a roundabout way, which is totally
reasonable. So it's, it's... every quote

is almost a paraphrase. But for us, it's,

it's scripture because what ends up on the
page is scripture, is, is what we're

trying to say. But the other one is, yeah,
the things like the, the birthdays and

also things like names of places and
distances. So for example, one of the

biggest controversies was at one point
they were leaving

a town and the next point they were
entering it, and you realize, well,

there's actually two. There's the old and

the new, and

there's all sorts of, like, things like
this. But most of the time, good faith

reading, the idea that you're gonna enter
and start to doubt the Bible's veracity

because you think it's somehow inaccurate,
the problem is, compared to what? So you

look at an ancient text and you look at
any ancient text, the Bible not only is...

it's embarrassingly better than
everything we have. And so if someone's

gonna say, "I just can't trust the Bible.
It's not historical," you would liter-

literally have to throw out every book
from antiquity, every single one. Not only

do we have our manuscript attestation,
not only do we have the earliness of the

copies, not only do we have, uh, just the,
the, the spread of the, the manuscripts,

not only do we have, like, the lack of
error between hand-copied manuscripts,

there's so many from so early that's im...
so we know that what we have in the Bible

was what was written. And then in terms
of the accuracy of what they describe,

it's not only... it's those types of
arguments that actually prove the case of

the Bible. Because

again, when you get into, like, the Book
of Mormon or in Islam, the... in the

Quran, the, the types of things they're
saying are always trying to avoid

embarrassment of their prophets or
embarrassment of their guys. And the, the

mistakes they make are egregious. In the
Bible, what you have is, like,

embarrassing seeming things about, for
example, women finding the tomb or, or

over here that, you know, this, this
picture of the disciples doubting or his

brothers not believing. And you just don't
record those things,

uh, just for funsies, you know what I
mean? Especially if you're trying to write

a mythology. So the argument that the
Bible is inaccurate, the argument that

someone wouldn't trust it over this, the
person that's arguing that or, or making

that conclusion,

uh, is 100% not arguing in good faith. And
I guarantee you that person isn't at all

skeptical of their own beliefs the same
way they are of the Bible. So

those exceptions are the types of
things... the very fact they have to get

so obscure is because the Bible's so good.
And even then, the answers are fine. I

mean, there's this... there's plenty of
things we don't know

in terms of details. There's idioms that
are used. For example, what's an Azri- uh,

what's a, what's the one of the words? We
don't know what it is. It's like an

Azrael or like an... The, the translators
are like, "I don't know."

Like, all the, all the weights, we really
don't... Like, don't we know... Like, none

-of the weights we really-
-Well, I got this wrong. Someone asked me,

"Is a shekel a, a, a weight or is it a
coin?" I'm like, "I don't know." It's like

a weight. It's like a she- something
shekels of silver. I'm like, "I feel like

-it's an amount."
-Mm-hmm.

Does that make... I have no idea. Like, I,

I could look it up. That's an easy one.
It's one of those ones like, I don't know.

I don't keep... I'm, like, not interested
in that.

-Yeah.
-And if someone asks, I'm like, "I guess if

we go look it up..."

Uh,

geography is also... Some people are
really into it. I'm not.

Like, geography has a lot of interesting
things in it. Um, and so insofar as it's,

like, central to the text, which often it
is, I'll research it and study it. But,

you know, Pastor Paul, he's really good.
He's like, "Oh, well, this is over here."

I'm not, like, in those areas. And that's
okay. But when you get down to it, those

questions, like, it's a great question,
but, I mean, I guarantee you, if you

ChatGPT it, there's plenty of good
answers.

I have no idea. It's not one I have in the
middle of my, in the middle of my brain,

-though.
-Yeah.

-So...
-Do you think there's a, a point... You

know, I think of Nick,

-uh, Duleman-
-Mm-hmm

... when he first got saved and he was
like, "I will..."

Even though he was actually a believer,
he's like, he was... had just... I don't

know if it was a healthy skepticism where
he was

taking all the genealogies and making
these giant... And I love you, Nick.

-Shout-out to Nick.
-Yeah.

But it was... he would... he was mapping
the genealogies-

-Yeah
-... and making a huge tree, which now

ChatGPT could probably do in, like, eight
seconds.

Yeah.

But I remember being like, "Well, what if
you find one that's off?" Like, what's the

end game here? Is there a point where you
think a Christian should be like, "Hey,

like, just believe this to be true

-and trust that-"
-Yeah. Um-

"... like, you will find a sufficient
answer?"

No, I don't think that's right. I think
it's fair to say the B- when we say the

Bible's without error, what we're
saying... There's a few things. What we're

saying is an original copy, which we
don't have.

-Yeah.
-We have...

So for example,

um,

when you get down to some issues, there
might be, like, a numbering issue or

something like... Those, those are fine.
But I think when you get down to the idea

that this is a perfect document in what
we're saying and what it's stating, it's

truthful in what it's stating, you have to
remember, like, it's truthful in what

it's stating, but there's still,

like I said, idioms. There's still normal
figures of speech. It's just... it's a,

it's... In other words, when we say
it's...

you're supposed to read it in a normal
way, the way you would read a normal

document.

And it... when people would try to look
for problems in it, again, my point is

simply,

okay, so the standard that you're
applying, would that be a standard that

you would apply to anything else? And so
what, what I'm just saying is anything you

would find trustworthy,

you can find in normal books all the time.
They have printing errors, mistakes.

-Yeah.
-What, what document... Like, "Well, this

doesn't have errors." I'm like, "All
right." So you go back to it and you look

at it. I just don't think people are often
being realistic. Whatever scales you use

for the Bible, you should use for
everything.

-Mm-hmm.
-The Bible, put it on the scale as a, as a

book, and let's see how it compares and
what it looks like. I think what people

want it to be is this, um,

you know, something otherworldly. Uh, but
God used men to write scripture. Uh,

that's... No, there's no question about
it. We talked about that in that other

episode, that God used men to write the
scripture so that his word ends up on the

page, that inspiration is the result, not
the process. And so

in that result, you get things like
personality. So some authors... This is

what's interesting.

The... Not to go any further down this,
but, like, the harmony of the Gospels.

This is the one where a lot of people make
a lot of hay about this.

They'll say, "Well, this auth- Gospel
writer says this, and this Gospel s- says

this." And you gotta remember, each...
When you understand that men are doing it,

each of them have different
personalities, and they also have

different emphases. And so Matthew's
Gospel is emphasizing Christ the Messiah,

Christ the King. So it starts off with his
genealogy. And so the emphasis and the

king, the messiah king, yes, Jesus is God.
Yes, it shows all these things. But the

emphasis in Matthew is on the, the
rulership. That's why the genealogy goes

back to David, back to Abraham. You get to
Luke's Gospel, and it's showing Jesus as

the perfect man, the servant of God. And
so it's... You know, Luke's Gospel has

Jesus praying more than any other Gospel.
Um, you know, so... But again,

as, as the second Adam, that's why the
genealogy comes in chapter three or four,

and the whole emphasis there was it takes
him back to Adam right after he gets

thrown in the wilderness to be tempted.
And so the second Adam. And the same

thing, you get to Mark. Mark, he's a
superhero. And so just all the, all the

euthus, the immediatelys that are there.
And you get to John, and John's more

theological, and, and he's emphasizing
Jesus as God.

And so when people try to make a harmony,
you're like, they're, they're saying true

things. But remember, G- the scripture's
more like a painting than it is a window.

In other words, the painting of an event,
it might be a true event, but what we are

given is not just the true event, like in
a newscast, but...

And even in a newscast, you're not getting
the true event. You're getting the...

what do you wanna call it? Like, the, uh,

-the narrative of the person behind it.
-Mm-hmm.

But in this, it is a theological narrative
of true events, and we are saved by the

Gospel. The Gospel we're given is the
Gospel in this book. So there's not a

hidden event.

The, the... Knowing the event from this...
So the scripture being a painting we look

at, not a window we look through, is very
important. And that means there's gonna

be things emphasized and things
de-emphasized, things that are very

specific and things that aren't. And most
of the obscure stuff, when people get

stuck on it, I think the real issue is

the hard stuff's the, the s- the simple
stuff. Uh, the obscure stuff's really

easy. There's, like, usually very basic
answers. I've never come across something

that I haven't found something adequate
where I'm like, "Ah, that's fine." None of

it's, like, gnarly. Uh,

so yeah. Anyways, great question. I
just... It's... I'm kind of uncurious

about it. I guarantee you, if you ChatGPT
it... Like, I'm not Matt GPT or something,

but yeah, that one's not in my
wheelhouse-

-... uh, right now.
-That was really our first, like, stump the

-pastor question.
-No, we have lots of them. I mean,

there's... They come... People ask me
questions-

-Yeah, I know.
-What about the

-adrenochromes and the...
-Oh, that's just awesome.

I know, right? I don't know anything about
that.

I want all the questions about
adrenochrome.

I don't know. Like, I know... The things I
know, I keep saying, like, I know modest

categorical things. I know the Bible
pretty well. I read it a lot. But

I know that I can find an answer. L- you
know, so-

Yeah.

But there's certain things that I'm
uncurious about, but I think that when you

start studying the Bible... I, I will say
this, and this is no offense to whoever

asked that.

I don't know how...

This would occupy your brain. Like, I'm...
Again, go to the thing I'm gonna talk

about tonight about the justice of God.

That's what should occupy your brain. And
I guarantee you, if I say, "God is just,"

you're like, "Yeah, I got it." I'm like,
"You don't have it." When I say, "God is

omnipotent," you're like, "Yeah, I totally
know what that means." I'm like, "I

guarantee you have not thought about the
implications of the fact that when God..."

Check this out. Last... I'll say this
from a little preview. When God made

everything,

He made everything at once, physics, math,
matter, time, space, said, "Let it be,"

and it was.

Th- there's not one thing

on planet Earth on, and that exists that
is hard for God. In other words, when God

does all that, no part of His power is
lessened

in making that. It, it... He could do that
again and again. There's no, um...

And so when you think of it, the greatness
of His power, the only thing that would

be hard is the giving up of His son, and
Paul's like, "And He gave that for you."

But then finally, in Ephesians, once you
see how omnipotent and how big and

powerful it is, it's not even on a scale,
it's off the scale,

he says

that we would know the greatness of His
power toward us.

-Hmm.
-And so when you think of the God who could

speak

matter into existence, ex nihilo, from
nothing,

that...

And that's just, like, called the work of
His hands, finger play at one point. Like,

He could just do it.

But then the description of what He's done
for us, and it's the greatness of that

power toward us, in us, and for us

who believe, I mean, this is beyond all
comprehension. So

man, I guarantee you that's the thing you
meditate on, that's the thing you go

through. But yeah, the, the, the s- the
details, I'm like, it's, it's interesting.

You can find an answer really quick, but
I would move really quickly. That's when

he... Paul tells Timothy, "Don't..." Like
we said last week, "Don't get stuck on

-endless genealogies and debates-
-Yeah

-... about these things." So...
-Thanks, Matt. Appreciate it.

-Yeah.
-If you have a question and wanna make Matt

-not know it or look silly on air-
-Yeah, please do

-... go to loudorweirdpodcast.com .
-Yeah, please. I'm, I'm-

-Click on the blue Ask-
-Great

... a Question button.

Uh, again, Matt, I'm just gonna do that
one for this week.

His strength is perfected in my weakness,
so-

-Oh, yeah
-... we'll just, uh...

-So much weakness.
-Yes, so much.

Now that you're aging.

I just... I'm in a battle here with this
microphone. We're, we're not friends.

I'm, uh... This... Oh, that's so much... I
just wanna hear my own voice so much

louder. I'll go back. No, you're fine. Oh,
they're gonna s- Yeah, but don't let them

see you though, Sean 씨.

We, we want you... Oh, that's... See, I've
been using the other one.

Oh, thank you. That's perfect.

-Wow.
-Thank you so much.

Looks like we stumped the other pastor-
... with the microphone here.

-That's so great.
-Uh-huh. All right.

I'm all about trying new things. I like
trying new things.

-Yeah.
-And, uh, this one...

-It's failed.
-But I do think the grandfather one- ...

the grandfather one is how I would answer
it.

Sean 씨 goes, "Failed."

Um, yeah, so Sean 씨's gonna be on vacation
in three weeks or so, so we're doing

back-to-back episodes today and next week.
And because of that, um-

-So we can just wear our same outfits.
-This week's topic... I brought a different

shirt. Our topic will be shortened a
little bit, and then, uh, we're doing a-

another Q&A episode after this one.

-And so-
-Quads

...

um, yeah, if you want these episodes to be
longer, well, go buy a mug.

My Genesis commentary should be coming out
soon.

Just, you just, just stop saying it. I
mean, it's gonna be forever.

I'm gonna have it to you in three weeks,

-and you have a lot of work to do.
-Exactly. Let's see. Now... So now they

know. Now it's gonna be on me. I hate
that.

-Yeah.
-Yeah.

-If it's not out, it's because of Brett.
-That's right.

Not like I got anything going on.

Uh, all right. Well, let's get to the
topic for this week. The topic is heathen,

-otherwise known as heaven.
-I was like, he's a heathen. I'm like-

-Heaven
-... lost people.

Um, first question. This is great. There's
a potpourri, and I'm thankful that you're

probably gonna say, "I don't know," to a
lot of these- ... which I think, I think

-is helpful.
-Is it the theme of today?

-Yeah, it's just very helpful, um-
-Sure

... so you don't have to be, like, Bible
answer monkey.

Uh,

the first one was, what happens
immediately after we die?

You go to be in the presence of the Lord.
I mean, the, the, the, the, the str- you

gotta be careful 'cause in the Bible,

in the Old Testament, heaven isn't spoken
of. It's, it's paradise, and the place of

the dead is called Sheol, and so
everything looks more horizontal. In the

New Testament, things look vertical. Okay?
So it's not that things have changed

necessarily, but the understanding of
things has changed somewhat. And so

heaven is,

is a place where we are with the Lord. But
we gotta be careful here because it's

not... There's a lot of mistakes about how
these things are viewed.

And I think that for the Christian, heaven
isn't the ultimate prize. And we're like,

"Wait, what?" In one sense, the, the hope
of glory is the prize. And when I say

hope of glory, most people think heaven.
But like 2 Corinthians, you know, 3, 4, 5,

but the Apostle Paul talks about that we
would be further clothed. In other words,

heaven isn't just a whimsical place where
there's no

matter. We think of heaven as, like, the
clouds and stuff,

um, which is appropriate, right? Because
we said there's the third heaven,

what the Bible describes it as the place
where God resides.

And God is spirit, and so when we die,

our souls go to be with the Lord. And in
some sense, we await

a glorified body. And so I think the big
distinction with, with this is that

if you think of heaven... The, the danger
of thinking of heaven merely as the place

we go to be with the Lord is that we can
a- like, kind of accidentally

smuggle in Gnosticism into our Christian
faith. And what I mean by that, the

Gnostic view is that matter,

like there's dualism, that matter was bad
and that matter was the problem. And then

the, the escape in Gnostic sort of

thinking was that you just get rid of
matter, the flesh is bad, and that

spirit's good,

and that

heaven is the escape from everything here.
And then people will be like, "Well, this

is the real world, and so that's bad, and
we need to escape that." So that, that's

all, that all is corrected when we realize
that,

for example, and Paul says in Romans 12,
"Offer your bodies as a living sacrifice,

which is your spiritual worship." In other
words,

our spiritual worship is something we do
with our bodies now, and it's something we

will do with our bodies forever.

And so when we think of heaven, it's a
place where we're with the Lord, but in

some sense, we're with the Lord in a way
where we await

still a glorified body. And so we are...
It is not purgatory. It is not anything

like that. We are in heaven. We have some
sort of- ... temporal body,

but we still await a glorified body in the
resurrection. And the reason that's so

significant is, let's go back to the
dualism issue.

When God made matter, He did something
scandalous. He called it good. In other

words, matter isn't bad.

And then He did the craziest thing ever of
calling, after calling it good, even

after the fall,

uh, God became a mammal.

He entered flesh and became a mammal. He
entered and became matter. And then even

after He was tortured and brutalized on
the cross,

the Gnostic could say, "Well, then He
escaped and ascended," right? Well, that's

not true. He was resurrected in a body,
and then He ate fish, not 'cause He was

hungry, but to demonstrate the reality,
the material reality of His body

and that He's the first fruits of the
resurrection. So when Paul talks about

being further clothed, for the Christian,
we long for heaven, but I just wanna

correct it before we go any further. That
longing isn't for a, a, a, a wispy sort of

non-body-like place. Uh, heaven is always
a place prepared for us to have bodies.

And yes, there'll be a millennial kingdom.
We can get into all that later.

At the end of the day, heaven's a place
where we will have bodies at some point,

and when we get them, here's the benefit
of having a better body.

Isn't abs, isn't this. It's

the things you want to do right now, you
have, you have your old nature still. And

so your old nature, and your body is your
old nature, is at war with your new

nature, with your new body.

Well,

the new body that awaits us will not be at
war. We will be unable to sin. Uh, we'll

be only able to do... So you'll be
perfectly disciplined. You'll be able to

perfectly do all the things you wanna do.
It's, it's, it's...

Imagine saying, like, all the ways you
wanna worship God, you'll be able to, but

the physicality-ness, the, the fact that
matter matters here on Earth and matter

will matter in some sense that we don't
totally know in heaven,

um, we're still gonna be temporal beings.
It's not like we cease being temporal.

There's still gonna be time and space. And
so

heaven is a place we go to be with the
Lord. It is of the presence of the Lord is

what, what that looks like, and we are
then awaiting this glorified body, which

is the second part of that. So I, I, I
just add that in so we don't

talk about clouds and fat cherubs and
stuff.

No, it's really helpful. I remember the
last time

I saw John MacArthur in person, the
shepherds before, you know, the one he

passed,

and someone asked him this question. It
was like, "What are you most excited about

heaven?" And they thought he would s- you
know, obviously he's like, "I'm excited

to see Jesus," and

he thought, but he just said, "I'm so sick
of sinning."

-Yeah.
-And he's like, "I'm just awaiting a body

-that doesn't sin."
-Yeah. It's, you know, even, and you could

even be more, like, for, I think a, a way
to say it is, "I'm so sick of even wanting

sin." I think the, the... This is what's
wrong. Like, for example, the Nazarene

church, they say that you can be sinless
in perfection here on Earth. I think they

all forget about the fact that it's not
just your sin act.

The new body is a d- a, a s- a, a, a
freedom from the sin desire.

-Hmm.
-I think it's the sin desire. The fact

that, like... And, and if you say you
don't desire sin, you're, you should

repent like you do.

Sin is still desirable to us. We know it's
terrible, and we all want it,

you know? And there's things we don't
want, but we all do. We're all capable.

That's the whole point of the heart and
being deceitful and stuff.

W- I'm, I'm longing for the body where,
yeah, we, I don't even desire sin.

-Mm-hmm.
-You know? And so

kinda like if you only desire to... But
this goes back to heaven. I can give you a

preview of heaven right now.

We keep thinking that heaven is a
displaced place. There's an aspect where

if you just did this desire thing, you
could imagine heaven on Earth in just a

second. Imagine if you had gratitude in
your life right now for what you actually

had. In other words, if you went to, like,
some kids in Africa that don't have

anything and you said, "Hey, what if I
gave you this life where you can have a, a

car and a house and, you know, running
water and multiple changes of clothing,

and you'll have the more money they could
ever imagine." Who, who cares about the

fact that you're in debt? But like, you
know, you could have all these things.

They'd be like, "Would that be amazing?"
Be like, "That'd be, I'd, that'd be beyond

all reckoning." And yet, we're not
thankful.

We are for randomly, but, like, we can't
sustain it. Like, like, we want to be

thankful. I, I dare say if you're watching
this, you would be a person who would

consider yourself a thankful person, and
you would want to have the gratitude that

the Bible commands us to, to be, to give
thanks always, right? To, to rejoice

always. I don't rejoice always. I don't
have gratitude always. But what if you

did? What if every time you turn on the
faucet, you were, like, overwhelmed with

gratitude for the fact that you have
running water that comes down, that every

time you get in a plane, you're like, "I'm
flying in the sky in a chair."

-Mm-hmm.
-Every time you, you know,

like, ate food, like, "Can you believe
that my digestion takes this? And look at

the flavors I'm having."

Just in this life, if you could have
gratitude, it would be almost like heaven.

Ju- so that's what I mean about the body.
A, a, a glorified body

that actually had gratitude and joy even
in this life, in this fallen world,

you can imagine. Now, com- combine that
glorified body with heaven.

-Yeah.
-It's...

It literally is the equivalent to me. The
reason we have such a hard time

envisioning it,

I think, is similar to asking, like, a
baby in the womb. You know, let's say

we're, let's say we're in the womb right
now and we're twins. Like, we got

umbilical cords, and we're like, "Hey,
when we get out, do you think... I heard

that we're not even gonna have these
umbilical cords. What's up with that?"

We're like, "I can't..." You can't even
imagine it,

but it's better. Whatever it is, it's
better. And so we're given analogies and

this, this and that, but it's like,

I just think we gotta watch out for the
wispy analogy

as if heaven's

less real,

I think is the argument I wanna try. It's
more real, and it's more certain, and

this life is the life that will probably
feel like a dream. Imagine 500 million

years from now remembering this one blip

in time with it. That's the part that
feels

crazy. And so,

you know, the, the, that's the picture of
heaven when I think about it. It's just

awesome. There's something about having a
glorified body that I think is necessary

in heaven

in relation to Jesus. So when we... Right
now, I have the Holy Spirit in me.

You have the Holy Spirit in you. Christ is
in us, and His high priestly prayer in

John 17 is that we'd be perfectly one.

And so that means that if I'm, like, at a,
a birthday party and I'm just, like,

feeling sad for something, like, I'm like,
"Meh."

I can just be like, "Lord..." And I can
just talk to Him, and He's with me, and I,

I'm like, I, I'm not alone. Like, so if
you're a person that's lonely or whatever,

like, God's with you. He's, He's in you.

And everyone's like, "When we get to
heaven, he'll be there and we'll see him

face to face." But if you stop and think
about it for a second, imagine getting to

heaven, and just do a thought experiment
with you,

and there's Jesus and you go to talk to
him, but now there's a crowd of people. So

now I'm, like, way back there. Well, who
am I talking to?

Am I, like... Do I have less Jesus in
heaven all of a sudden because I'm, like,

with him?

It's like he's still with us all, but I
also think so much of our life right now

is filled with insecurities. In other
words, when you're far away from your wife

or when you're far away from things,
like, like, absence is, uh, distance is

harder.

What if in a glorified body you're, like,
not only with him, but you also have none

of the insecurities that we normally have?
You have none of the challenges. Like,

"Oh, when it's my time I'll see him, but
in the meantime, God, you're good." And

you could still communicate and...

I just, I don't know. I, I think that
there's so much to, like...

If you could go to heaven right now, Paul
makes this clear, he's like, "It's made

for imperishable people." If you went to
heaven right now as you are, you'd ruin

it.

Because it's perfection. And so in that
sense, every view that you have of heaven

is somehow

distorted

because you can keep imagining yourself
there. And if, if you can imagine a place

that you'd be that's considered perfect,
you're, you're not on it. You know what I

mean? So

we have to be changed and that's the
whole, the whole idea. So...

Yeah, one could say heaven isn't too far
away. You're closer to it every day.

Yeah, you are closer to it than you were
yesterday. And then-

-From the 1990 hit song by Warrant.
-Yeah, you could say, "Ooh, baby, do you

know what that's worth? Some say that
heaven-"

You could say, "Hello to Heaven," Temple
of the Dog, 1991.

Ooh, heaven is a place on earth. It's not
a place on earth.

-Yeah, it's true.
-They say in heaven love comes first.

Y- you have a lot... All my... So I have,
like,

Warrant and Temple of the Dog are great,
like, rock b- well, Temple of the Dog is

-one of the greatest rock bands ever.
-What am I, what am I calling them?

-You always reference the weirdest songs.
-I do, actually.

I was like, did you listen to, like... I,
I, I just... Uh, your childhood, I, I just

-see you listening-
-Brian Adams, what he says, "Heaven."

Yes.

Or you're just, like, in one of those,
like, I picture you in, like, tight

spandex in one of those workout videos.
Like, all those songs you reference.

No, you know what it is? I can't get
songs, like song lyrics... Like, that's my

problem. I have a good memory

and, but I don't choose to memorize
things. They just, they just do memorize

things and I hate that because, like, for
example, I still have,

um, what's it called? Like, the Humpty
Dance. Like, I have all the lyrics in my

-head.
-That's so weird.

We were out somewhere and someone says
something and I, I have all the li-

remember that, that, that movie and that
song Colors?

-Yeah.
-"I am a nightmare walking, psychopath

talking, king of the jungle, just a
gangster stalking, living life like a

firecracker quick on my fuse." And I, this
is in my head.

-Mm-hmm.
-And so the weirdest part is... And then

sometimes I have interviews.

I can't even say it. I was like, on
Sunday, I can't... This is probably

-inappropriate.
-You can't. No, I got more questions. We

-don't have a lot of time. Yeah.
-Yeah, get us on track.

-Yeah. Just, just, I was just-
-Heaven

... calling out your music selection is
bizarre.

-Heaven.
-Heaven. Um,

I'll get some potpourri questions going.
Will we know our spouse in heaven? Will we

know... Like, will we be able to
recognize people that we knew on earth in

-heaven?
-Yeah. You, of course you will. I mean,

because you, you're not... You, you don't
have amnesia when you get to heaven.

But think about this. In somehow of our
change, not only will we know each other

and not only will be,

will we be better,

but in some way our mind and ability to
see and know each other has to be expanded

beyond our comprehensions. For example,

I can, I can barely remember what happened
in second grade. Can you? Like, we have a

few memories maybe.

Okay, but we're... Like, that's a matter
of, what, like 40 years ago or something?

-I don't know.
-We'll go with that.

So

-how old was I in second grade?
-I don't know.

-How old are second graders?
-I have no clue.

-We should know this.
-Our kids are homeschooled.

-Yeah.
-I don't even know what grade they're in.

-I know, right?
-I have no clue.

Um, all right, but my point is,

I can barely... A matter of something in a
matter of four years. So how much are you

gonna remember something that happened
400 years ago when you're in heaven? Four

million years ago? Like, are we all just
gonna be super dumb about our own history?

Like, "I totally forgot I even did that
1,000 million years ago." Like, our

concept of time, I think we- we're, we're
missing how amazing this, this kind of

glorified state is. So not only will we
recognize each other, but we'll know each

other. And so I think in a sense,
everything's revealed. We'll all know our

history, we'll all know our story, Jesus
gets the glory, and we will see one

another as we

truly are. And, and remember, when people
see angels, they're tempted to, like, fall

down and worship. When we see one
another, CS Lewis said we'd be tempted to

worship one another truly in our glory.

Um,

yes, we will know each other, but that
means a couple things. That means right

now here on earth,

the friendships that you have in Christ,
all the people you know at church, you're

gonna know them forever. And so CS
Lewis's, uh, sermon, The Weight of Glory,

was so great on this idea that people that
you laugh with and joke with and snub,

these are people you're gonna know
forever. He calls them everlasting

splendors or everlasting horrors. But the,
the weight of your neighbor's glory is

what he's getting at, that when you know
these, these people, it means that every

friendship you have in the church is an
eternal relationship right now. You don't

wait to have an eternal relationship with
them when you get to heaven. You have it

right now. The investment you have

in your brothers and sisters in Christ is
an eternal investment right now. You don't

forget it. It doesn't go away.

I think that's an amazing thing. And so...

But the, the idea of will you recognize
your wife? Of course. But is there

marriage and giving in marriage in heaven?
It's like, but you're gonna ask me. Is

-that right?
-Yeah.

So go ahead and ask me and then I'll
answer it.

Yeah, are people getting married in
heaven?

Well, Jesus says no. And, but we gotta be
careful about this. We don't wanna say

more than he says. Remember, he's
answering the, the Pharisees who ask about

the resurrection and they give him, like,

a sort of a silly story.

Uh, and he... Before he gets into the
answer, which was to show they were just

Sad- Sadducees and he wants to show them
that the,

they didn't follow the,

the five books of Moses as they said they
did so well. So he uses the present tense

of a state of being verb when, when God
says, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and

Jacob," even though they had died, he
says he's not the God of the dead of the,

but of the living, which ipso facto, the
resurrection is true. So what he did for

the Sadducees in that section was to prove

that just using the state of being, the
present tense state of being verb, that

the resurrection is true, which kind of
like said, "You think you wanna trust the

scripture? Here's what that looks like.
Here's how serious the scripture is true."

But he also says right before that,
almost like an offhand remark, where he

goes, "You don't understand anything,
don't you? You don't even know. They'll be

like angels. There won't be marriage or
giving in marriage." And so...

We kind of can...

I think the safest thing to say is we
don't know what that means. But the, the

other thing is

I think in a way, in his high priestly
prayer that we be perfectly one, I don't

think we'll have a lesser relationship
with our spouse. I think we'll have the

best one ever. I think we'll be more
devoted to Christ than maybe we are right

now and less...

Like, marriage was to picture a gospel
relationship that will fully... that, that

pictures of Christ and the church. And so

I won't have less love for my wife, I'll
have more.

I won't maybe perhaps need to be married
because my fidelity to her will be, you

know... Like, the question is, is there
sex in heaven?

-Mm-hmm.
-Is there, um, are there toilets in heaven?

Yeah.

You know, like is there plumbing? And,

and Jesus in his glorified body eats fish,
which indicates that he has a digestive

system, which indicates that, you know, he
probably takes a crap.

Uh,

excuse the language for whoever. I, I,
that was crass. Um, and, but, you know,

-sexual relationships, like I don't know.
-Hmm.

That's kind of why I use the bibl- the
umbilical cord analogy. Like, how are we

gonna eat if we don't have an umbilical
cord? We just can't even envision it, but

none of us would wanna go back to an
umbilical cord. Like, this is better to be

-able to taste food and do this.
-Yeah.

So whatever the relationship is,

the--

it's a pale version of what it's gonna be.

You will not have less of your wife,
you'll have more. You'll have-- you'll be

perfectly one with her, whereas right now
you're not. But you'll also be somehow

perfectly one with Christ and one another
in the church. So

-yeah, I don't know. I, I don't know.
-And there seemingly wouldn't be any

procreation though.

Right. Well, no. It does-- seems like
that's not the case. But does-- I mean,

-does that mean that the, the purpose of-
-Right

... of sex in the Bible isn't just for
procreation, but-

-Correct
-... is it just pictured? I mean-

-Mm-hmm
-... would anyone even need or want it? I

have no i- like, I think that the, some of
the questions we get to is like, well,

wait a second, what does that m- you know,
"Hey, I've got a new mansion for you."

It's like, "Wait, what's gonna happen to
my room here?" Like, you're going to a

mansion, you're not gonna want your room
here. So I don't know.

I, I think that's part of the p- place
where... You know, for example, you, you

can always tell where we don't picture
heaven enough. I think that there's two

mistakes. One, we think of it too much,
and we think of it not at all.

One of the areas that we say, you'll hear
the person say, let's say a young person,

"Well, I don't wanna die and

till I get married and I get to

meet the person." I'm like, "I get it."
That's coming from a really... That'd be

like in prison saying, "I don't wanna get
out of prison till I first get at, at le-

at least to be the head of the line

in dodgeball or something." You know?

You're like,

when you're on the other side of prison,
you're like, "You need to get out right

-now. Drop it. What are you doing?"
-Mm-hmm.

You know, on the other hand, God leaves us
here to put... At one some point Paul

says, "Well, he's got me here for a
purpose."

Um,

it's not wrong that you're here. You
should be here. Like, there's-

-Yeah
-... you have a task to do. And the same...

The, the God that you're going to worship
forever has given you a task to do here.

And so in worshiping him, I think we get
to heaven and we'll realize

how important our life was,

uh, in the task that he's given as part of
this tapestry of his plan. So-

-Mm-hmm
-... anyways, yeah, I don't know. I think

the fair thing is to say

it's better than we can imagine. You're
not gonna lose anything. It's going to be

more than we can picture. I think that's
kind of the best way to say it.

Yeah.

Um, I wanna get to... We don't have a ton
of time left, but-

-Oh, gosh
-... there's three that are really sitting

with me. I know. If you want more time and
more time on the podcast, buy more mugs.

We'll just have to change our schedule.
Change time and space.

Ch- can you shift

the

corridors of time? This one comes up. You
briefly touched on it, I think, two

podcasts ago, but

everyone's forgot about it by then.

Say you're, you're in heaven, and as you
said, you're

most likely will remember what happened on
Earth. You'll understand who's there. You

also understand who's not there. And so
when someone says, "In heaven, there's no

more sadness, no more tears, you'll be
perfectly happy," but then you're gonna

realize, oh, Grandma Nina is in hell. So
how will that not produce sadness in you

knowing that this person you loved on
Earth is now, you know, in torment for all

-eternity?
-Yeah.

Um,

the basic analogy is that what we think,

most of our judgment of things right now
is based on our perspectives.

When we see God truly,

right now we can't, but when we see him
truly and his awesomeness and his

wonderfulness,

and when we see Aunt Nana

and her sin truly,

no person will be sad

that she's not there. The only cry we'll
have is, "How long will you wait till you

avenge your own glory?" I mean, like,

that's hard for us to say

because we tend to think of ourselves and,
and... Look, we just don't see sin as it

is. We see it as a small thing. We see it
as like, it's a reasonable thing. We just

don't see the egregious because we don't
see the beauty of the Lord. Like, it...

For example, even a small thing, you say,
"Oh, my feet were dirty on the carpet."

That's one thing. But what about when you
walk on a precious, like, mural and you

ruin it with your foot? It's just the same
thing. You're walking, "Oh, it's just

dirty feet." Now, what if that thing is so
precious that it's, like, the most

precious thing and you just walk upon it
and trample it and destroy it? But to you,

I'm just...

it's just dirty feet. So it... the, the,
the magnitude of who God is and when you

see him and the seriousness of sin, there
is zero people... And so I will say this.

Uh, go to the Bravus,

uh, app, if you... We have an app. Click,
click on the classes tonight, or when you

read this, it'll already be out, the one
I'm doing on justice. No person

in hell

will, will think that it's unfair they're
there, and no person in heaven will look

at anyone in hell and think that they
shouldn't be there.

No person will be sad about any of it.
We'll... every single person will be

giving God glory exactly. In fact, it's
not even a tragedy. It's, it's... there is

a rightness to all of it,

and I think that the problem right now is,
is one of perspective. You know, um,

we're, we're used to...

We like the scales when they're in our
favor, but when we finally see the scales

as they are, I think that's the idea. And,
and one of the things in the Bible you

see is the Book of Revelation is the
revelation not only of Christ and, and God

and heaven, but it's the revelation of
natural man. And so all the people that

might seem neutral right now, when you...

you know, the same sun that melts wax
hardens clay,

seeing that rebellion, uh,

that person that seems just apathetic,
they're not. And so that's kind of the

idea in all that. So-

Uh, there's more. I, I just recommend it,
but check that out.

Yeah. Uh, the other one is, one, do

children, you know, who die before the age
of accountability, do, um, babies who

are-- who die in the womb, do they go to
heaven? And then kinda second to that-

-Yes
-... I was, I was asked this recently, is

will their glorified body be like a
certain age, an adult? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you get the impression
there's no children in heaven, right?

That's kind of the idea.

Um, but we're not told that exactly. I
don't know how

maybe there are children that grow up in
heaven. They just go as...

Maybe they go as a baby and they grow up
there, but they don't have-- no one's

having kids. I, I don't know. I mean, but

the, the sort of traditional view is
that... Well, first of all,

every child that dies prior to, like,
being accountable for their sins is in

heaven. So if you've had a miscarriage,
you're going to meet your,

your child and have an eternal
relationship with them forever and ever

and ever.

And so it's something you mourn, but

it goes to the realness of this, this
eternal soul and, and the, the act, the

sexual act too, how serious that is.

Um,

yeah, you're gonna see them there. If you
have a disabled child, if you have

somebody that's been through this, when
you get there and see that person not in

pain, you see the person that is in the
wheelchair walking on two legs, like you

see the- these things that's gonna be
true,

it's an amazing experience. Um, but you're
also gonna be more awesome too. So yeah,

I, I can't even imagine

all the, the kids that we're gonna meet
and see and, and yeah, it's gonna be

-awesome. So-
-Mm-hmm

...

there's

the-- it is the hope for the person, the
parent that's lost a child. You, you're

gonna see them.

But

especially when you think about the, like

-miscarriages and whatnot, you know?
-Mm-hmm.

Um, now some-- one argument would be every
aborted child is gonna be in heaven.

That's true. And someone says, "Well, why
wouldn't you just go abort children?" I'm

like, "Well, every person... Why wouldn't
you just kill Christians either?"

It neither is the right argument. Like
the, the... Yes, where they end up is

heaven, but, um,

yeah, there, I think we'll be surprised
who we meet.

Um, this came up a lot was what will we,
what will we actually do there? Is it

just, you know, sitting around singing
songs to Jesus all day? You-

-Yeah.
-You love talking about this.

Yeah.

Well, okay, look, so this goes back to the
thing I started with, is when we think

about the reason that we ask what we would
do, that'd be like saying, "What would

you do on Earth?"

The argument is God... Like, you gotta
remember that heaven is not an alien

place. The same God who made everything

and it's... So the heavens, not, not
heaven, but the heavens, sky,

creation declares the glory of God. In
other words, you can know something about

God by what he's made. And what do you
know? There is order, there's seasons,

there's awesomeness, there is cold and
there is heat. There is,

there's water and there's dry land.
There's deserts and forests and,

and there's... We have bodies that can do
all sorts of things, right? You can run

fast or you can lift things. You can...
You know, I'm not fly- flying here and

then dropping here. Like, there's... I
have a body, I can do things. And in that,

there's fun games you can play and
there's sports and there's work without

toil. Like, for example, when we work
right now, there's supposed to... That's

from the fall. Our work doesn't reward us
the way it ought to. In heaven, imagine...

The best way to describe it in my case
with work is like, you know, when you play

like a,

I don't know, like a GigaPet or those old
games or when you plant something,

there's something rewarding about doing
something that just keeps

every investment of it. Imagine lifting
weights, no entropy, and you just keep

getting stronger. You never are in a state
of decay. Every time you go to the gym,

you get stronger and you never get less
fit,

right? So, so much of what we're doing is
dealing with, like, entropy and decay. So

in heaven, there's certainly the things we
do. And if we're supposed to do all

things here for the glory of God, why
would we think that we wouldn't be doing

all things for the glory of God in heaven?

And so, yes, of course we'll sing. Of
course we'll sing with the angels. I think

what's really fascinating is, is thinking
about,

you know, like the memory of like

when you d- when you know life isn't gonna
end, when death isn't a specter hanging

over you, what does that mean for your
daily life?

Knowing that if you start a hobby, you can
do it for a million years-

-Mm-hmm
-... for the glory of God. It takes some of

the angst and the pressure and the
craziness to just enjoy the slowness of

things. You know, I think

part, part of me thinks that heaven will
be like you're gonna be walking places

and chilling out, and then maybe the pace
is really slow. Just like maybe you have

long... I have no idea. But I do think
there'll be meals in heaven. Jesus talked

about drinking of the vine and the fruit.
There'll be wine in heaven somehow. Jesus

said, "I'll drink the fruit of the vine
with you when I'm there." So

I think it's, it's like Earth, but better
without any of the, the fall, without any

of the things. Um,

but that... As far as we know, it, it's
just, it's a better version of what we can

imagine, a more real, more fulfilling,
more awesome thing.

This goes back to a question that we got a
long time ago where you're just gonna

make a lot of people angry or happy. We
don't know. Will our pets be in heaven and

-will they recognize us?
-Yeah. Um, I don't know. I mean, the, the

reason... I think when people say that
dogs and cats and animals don't go to

heaven,

the question is they don't have the
same... They don't have a soul the way we

do, right? But they do have the breath of
life.

Um,

1 Corinthians 15 describes that there's a
resurrection of different kinds of bodies,

right? There's one kind for the moon and
the stars and the trees. So there's a

sense in which all of creation, there's
a... It's not ex nihilo, it's a recreation

and the new creation, right? It's a, a
recreation of things.

And so will that animal be in heaven? I
mean, there's

perfectly reasons to think so. I mean,
Paul describes

that idea. Um, and I know in the
millennial kingdom, the- it describes the

lion laying down with the lamb, the wol-
you know, the,

the adder not biting the kid. So there's a
new relationship with animals. That's at

least in the millennial kingdom.

Um,

but we can't say more than that. I mean,
like, I think the issue, the real issue

with animals is that we've personalized
them. And so that animal that recognizes

you right now

isn't your actual friend. It's

an animal. The things it's thinking
isn't... It's not secretly thinking about

how much it loves you. It's

an ani- an animal, and so it's not a
human.

Uh, it thinks animal thoughts, and we
don't know animal thoughts 'cause you're

not an animal. So your dog, when it looks
at you, the whole time it might just be

like, "Bone, bone, bone, bone, bone, bone,
bone, bone," and just-

You're like, "Oh, is it gonna see me and
how..." Are you, you put the sweater on it

and say all the things.

Um, we don't know. So I don't know more
than that. I mean, there's a... You can

make a case either way. I do think it's
silly though to say, "No, dogs don't go to

heaven,"

or, "Dogs do go to heaven." And either
way, the Bible doesn't answer us more than

that. Um, I think the personality you've
invented for your dog doesn't exist the

way you think it does. Will that
personality on that animal be there in

heaven in a better way?

I don't know. You know? I don't want you
to be uncomfortable with the... but the

Bible just doesn't tell us, I think is the
best way to say it.

Will there be different ethnicities and
nationalities? I've had this question

before.

-Really?
-Like, 10 years ago was-

-Wow
-... if I'm Black on Earth, will I have a

Black glorified body? And if you're white,
will you have a white glorified body? And

-does scripture tell us? Does it matter?
-Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean,

either... there's some interesting,

there's some interesting dynamics because
you... when you start to extrapolate

this... Let's put this in perspective.
Let's take my view, which is that you're

gonna have

a... the church is

glorified, okay? You have a, a, a church
that is in glorified bodies after the

resurrection, and you're gonna have a
millennial kingdom on Earth,

and you'll have those people that survived
the tribulation living in a new Earth.

At some point, the interaction with... you
have a heavenly Jerusalem, you have

Earth, and there... people will be dying
during that time, but they live a long

time, and

there'll be an interaction of, like,

someone in the millennial kingdom with a
normal body that lived through the

tribulation, that things are healthier,
and then there will also be somehow an

interaction with people that have
glorified bodies.

And so maybe every glorified body looks a
certain way. Like, maybe we all ha- maybe

we all look pink or blue.

I, I don't know. Um, but the interact-
like, the interplay between that is

something that's hard to imagine. But

again, you have interplays in the,

in the Old Testament, right? Like, so,
like, and we talked about it before, like,

oh, well, how would dinosaurs and people
exist, right? And some people say, "That's

impossible." I'm like, no. Let me just
use this as an analogy.

When you look at dinosaurs, like, well, a
cold-blooded dinosaur that moves really

slowly, like, you can go to a golf course
and see a dinosaur sitting there on the

golf course and you walk right by it.

You know,

you can come up with ways how you can
imagine it. Uh,

but

yeah, the, the idea that you have every
tribe, tongue, and nation that's singing

praise in Revelation describes differences
that are visible in heaven still. And so

I, I assume that every ethnicity would be
there in some sense of every tribe,

tongue, and nation. Um, but it says that
with one voice, they were glorifying God.

So,

um,

I think culture, uh,

on Earth, you'll have the reconstitution
of nations, so there'll still be cultures.

There'll still be

the restraint of evil because people will
still be having kids and whatnot. But in

heaven, it maybe is a little bit
different. And so I just don't know. I

don't know. I, I, I think it's reasonable
to think so. You s- again, in Revelation,

you see every tribe, tongue, and nation
worshiping, so

-there's distinctions, but...
-I'm gonna stop you right there, Matt.

Thanks for, uh, talking about heaven for a
little bit. Sean, see, I might audible

instead of doing Q&A after this. I might
just do heaven two-

-Part two. Yeah.
-Part two,

-because I have another-
-Let's keep going

-... uh, 68 questions.
-I feel like we're rushed. Yeah, I feel

like we're rushed.

Yeah. Uh, that's gonna do it for this
week. Tune in next Monday-

-I like this
-... when we talk about heaven two part...

-We should start doing part-
-I enjoy this

-... part deux.
-I like talking for three hours. I hate the

shorter split episodes. Tell us what you
think in the comments. Do you want us to

do one-hour episodes where we keep
splitting up into different halves, or are

you gonna do dishes and yard work for
four hours?

I just think they just need to take what
they... they need to take what we give

-them.
-Yeah.

-They like it.
-Or unless they start buying mugs.

No, I mean, just like this is... you can
get-

-I just love putting it on them.
-What kind of, uh... I know.

This has nothing to do with you guys
buying mugs or not.

-Are we gonna be-
-It has everything to do with-

... are we gonna be becoming a nonprofit
and then selling mugs?

... how me and Matt schedule. We're
working on nonprofit status where you can,

um, subscribe and donate if you would
like, but this, this is all about our

-schedule.
-You can get a black model tee or a black

-model tee.
-I feel bad. Yeah.

-But whatever we give you.
-Yeah. I don't wanna guilt anyone into

-buying mugs. Um-
-But you should buy my book.

-But you should maybe buy the book.
-And the Bible.

-And the mug, if you like a mug.
-Buy the Bible.

Uh, I have the fastest doesn't slap, and I
just want a yes or no. Doodle dogs.

-I don't know what it is.
-Doodle dogs, like, uh-

-What's a doodle dog?
-Bernedoodle, Labradoodle, any... everyone

just puts something together with a doodle
so it doesn't shed. Doodle dogs.

-I feel... I guess they slap.
-Yes, they totally-

You shouldn't slap a doodle dog, but I
think doodle dogs slap.

Definitely. But you can draw a doodle dog,
which would be a doodle of a doodle dog.

-I think that doodle-
-I'm doodle dog doodling.

Doodle dogs are the ultimate... Yeah, I, I
think-

I'm gonna draw pictures of doodle dogs,
and when someone asks, "What are you

-doing?" I say, "I'm doodle dog doodling."
-Maybe every dog in heaven is just a mutt,

-though.
-Yeah, doodle dog doodling-

-You know?
-... is fun to say.

Yeah, doodle dogs. I think that's cool. I
mean, I don't know.

Can you just say doodle dog doodling for
me?

Doodle dog doodling.

All right. We'll see y'all next...

-Good night.
-I was eating noodles with my doodle...

-Like, what?
-I just hacked up a-

-All right
-... hoagie over here.

-All right, let's just do it.
-All right, let's end it. Uh, thanks, guys.

Uh, like and subscribe. We'll see you
next Monday.

-Ah.
-This is like very wrecking...

-The back to back.
-It's perfect.

This is perfect. This is great. Thanks for
listening. Thanks for watching. Like and

subscribe. I can't land the plane. I have
to land on a good note.

You could do it. Right, let's try to end
it, end it.

Just end it. Cut.

-Hey, Matt, you know what really slaps?
-What?

Our subscribers, the people who watch the
show, you, each week. So thank you. We

appreciate you tuning in each week to
listen to the A Lot of Words podcast.

Make sure you like and subscribe and watch
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for us. Make sure you comment, and it
really supports the channel, and we really

love hearing from what you have to say,
and we're excited to keep doing this.

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